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Ohio Sen. Sherrod Brown calls for Burger King boycott over Tim Hortons deal

NIMBY said:
As per your plan, outgoing Ways and Means Chair Dave Camp was surprisingly allowed to put forth his tax rewrite overhaul.
McConnell promptly declared it DOA--and it never saw the light of day on the House floor.

Retiring Camp was term-limited as Chair, which Rep. P. Ryan takes over next year.
My gut feeling on Ryan is he wants to do the right thing--but he bounces back-and-forth because of TEA-pressures.

I'd love to see Ryan forget about being President as long as he's allowed to be Chair of W&M and get the House in order.
Ryan's a protege of Jack Kemp as I'm sure you know and I often call him the most knowledgeable man in DC on the economy.

We haven't had a shutdown so far this year due to the "small" agreement between Ryan and Sen. Murray, crafted in secrecy.
Yet a small cut in COLA to Veteran's pensions was fought off by neos and military-state pols from both parties, costing the Treasury billions.
The decreases in the increases to the budget must be brought under control in all sectors, IMHO; the guts of any grand-bargain .
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i've seen Ryan's budget proposals, and i disagree with him on almost everything except for reducing deficits. as for him wanting to do the right thing, yeah, i'd say that's fair. but he's a trickle downer, and at this point on the Laffer curve, i support more demand side measures. believe it or not, i do support supply side corrections in certain scenarios, such as when the tax rates are historically high. that's not the case currently, though.

as for his proposal to dismantle medicare, i'm one hundred percent against that. i support expanding medicare to replace our current inefficient universal health care policy.
 
j-mac said:
1. Reason mag had a pretty good take on the progressive anti freedom putz that is Bloomberg....

"Bloomberg is an authoritarian. He's not an authoritarian in the way Josef Stalin or Pol Pot was authoritarian, but every instinct tells you he's a man who would use any power given to him to govern every aspect of public and private life whenever necessary -- or, more precisely, whenever he finds it necessary, which is frequently. All said, he's exactly the type of person who makes the Constitution a necessity.
Anyone who believes your caloric intake is government's prime concern should be watched carefully, of course; but no matter what crusade the man's on, his rationalization for limiting personal freedom is a dangerous one. Some of his proposals are popular (smoking bans), and others are less so (limiting portion sizes and banning ingredients), but all of them set precedents that distort the relationship between government and citizens. The jump from minor infringements on personal liberty to giant ones is a shorter one than you think. Allow a politician to tell you what your portion sizes should be and the next thing you know you're letting Washington force you to buy insurance you don't want.
If the Bloomberg administration believes that salt -- "the greatest public health threat facing" New York City -- is worth losing your freedom over, imagine what he'd have planned after a terrorist attack.


Read more: Michael Bloomberg's Authoritarian Instincts - Reason.com

2. Wrong again....According to Investors business daily:

"If there is anything New York doesn't need it's more reasons for Empire State residents to flee.
Over the last decade (2001-11) New York's population fell by 1.6 million. Many disgruntled New Yorkers said enough, packed up and left the state. This was a larger population drain than suffered by any other state. Congratulations.


Read More At Investor's Business Daily: New York Finds High Taxes Send State's Wealthy Fleeing - Investors.com
Follow us: @IBDinvestors on Twitter | InvestorsBusinessDaily on Facebook

3. Until "I" am prepared? So I have to change to your warped way of thinking about our constitution and rights eh?

NO!

Show me in the constitution where Health care, or Medical services are in the bill of rights.....I'll wait.
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1. Bloomberg. I read that opinion piece you linked and that is all it was, an opinion. Show me in the Bill of Rights where smoking is a right? In fact it infringes on my right to be healthy. I think everyone should be able to smoke anywhere they please, just not be allowed to exhale. Ever walk in NYC? I do at least once a year usually around the holidays. Guys at the street corner spouting all sorts of crap all day long. Plenty of churches, synagogues & mosques. Thousands of restaurants and street vendors. You have to do a little better than what you posted regarding freedoms being curtailed in NYC. Trust me, you can get as fat as you want and have as much salt and trans fat as you like. I know that is very important to conservatives. Fear not, a dirty water dog is mere steps away.

2. " NYC has seen more wealth flee the city than ever. It's only the poor that have to suffer there." This was YOUR original post. Note your first word, NYC which as I understand means New York City. To which I replied that NYC is doing very well with new high rises, tech companies etc. Its taken a while after 9/11 but NYC is thriving by most measures. Certainly wealth. Then you come back with people leaving New York State (pretty big state) between 2001 and 2011. Not sure how that pertains to your original assertion regarding NYC. BTW here are some more recent stats:

Based on the total number of births, total number of deaths, net migration rate, the population of 2013, and the previous growth rate, the current population of New York is estimated to be about 19,742,832, which makes up about 6.14% of the country’s total population. As a result, New York is currently the 4th most populous state in the United States, behind Florida, but ahead of Illinois. As of July 1, 2013, the population of New York was estimated to be about 19,651,127. Thus, since last July, the population has grown by 91,705 or by a growth rate of 0.47%. The 2010 Census indicated that the population was 19,378,102. So, since the last census, the population has grown by 364,730 or by a growth rate of 1.88%. The 2000 Census indicated that that population was 18,976,457. So, since that census, the population has grown by 766,375 or by a growth rate of 4.04%. Based on the total land area and the total population of the state, the population density of New York is approximately 418.36 people per square mile or 161.53 people per square kilometer.

3. You seem to have a reading comprehension problem. I did say ECONOMICALLY not legal regarding healthcare. Which is exactly how we treat it today with unlimited access to emergency rooms. Just ask former president bush. This is a fact. You may not like it but until a law is passed to restrict this access and then enforced by some means, healthcare will still be treated as a right, at least economically. Try and focus on what I write and not on someone's talking points.
 
Hari Seldon said:
1. Bloomberg. I read that opinion piece you linked and that is all it was, an opinion. Show me in the Bill of Rights where smoking is a right? In fact it infringes on my right to be healthy. I think everyone should be able to smoke anywhere they please, just not be allowed to exhale. Ever walk in NYC? I do at least once a year usually around the holidays. Guys at the street corner spouting all sorts of crap all day long. Plenty of churches, synagogues & mosques. Thousands of restaurants and street vendors. You have to do a little better than what you posted regarding freedoms being curtailed in NYC. Trust me, you can get as fat as you want and have as much salt and trans fat as you like. I know that is very important to conservatives. Fear not, a dirty water dog is mere steps away.

2. " NYC has seen more wealth flee the city than ever. It's only the poor that have to suffer there." This was YOUR original post. Note your first word, NYC which as I understand means New York City. To which I replied that NYC is doing very well with new high rises, tech companies etc. Its taken a while after 9/11 but NYC is thriving by most measures. Certainly wealth. Then you come back with people leaving New York State (pretty big state) between 2001 and 2011. Not sure how that pertains to your original assertion regarding NYC. BTW here are some more recent stats:

Based on the total number of births, total number of deaths, net migration rate, the population of 2013, and the previous growth rate, the current population of New York is estimated to be about 19,742,832, which makes up about 6.14% of the country’s total population. As a result, New York is currently the 4th most populous state in the United States, behind Florida, but ahead of Illinois. As of July 1, 2013, the population of New York was estimated to be about 19,651,127. Thus, since last July, the population has grown by 91,705 or by a growth rate of 0.47%. The 2010 Census indicated that the population was 19,378,102. So, since the last census, the population has grown by 364,730 or by a growth rate of 1.88%. The 2000 Census indicated that that population was 18,976,457. So, since that census, the population has grown by 766,375 or by a growth rate of 4.04%. Based on the total land area and the total population of the state, the population density of New York is approximately 418.36 people per square mile or 161.53 people per square kilometer.

3. You seem to have a reading comprehension problem. I did say ECONOMICALLY not legal regarding healthcare. Which is exactly how we treat it today with unlimited access to emergency rooms. Just ask former president bush. This is a fact. You may not like it but until a law is passed to restrict this access and then enforced by some means, healthcare will still be treated as a right, at least economically. Try and focus on what I write and not on someone's talking points.
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1. Where did I say smoking was a right? Please post that for me....Also, in regards to smoking, cigarettes are among the most heavily taxed item in our society today. To the point where places like NY are creating a black market for them, so spare me the complaining about people buying freely a legal product and using it, while you reap the benefits of increased tax revenue from that product...You want to stop people from smoking tobacco? Make it illegal. Good luck.

2. OH, I realize we started with the city, and now we are on to state wide, as the figures you are posting here also move to....In that regard I don't think people are flocking to live in the city...But that is my opinion...To me it would be foolish to move to NYC today, cost of living, taxation, and even crime in the city are all on the rise...Hell to live there you have to make a pretty penny just to eek out a middle class living situation. Enough that would put you in the upper middle anywhere else.

3. I read just fine, so you can save your personal insults (I know it is a standard conversational dialect for NY'ers),n It doesn't matter whether you say 'economically', 'actually', or 'I just want it to be', that changes nothing in the absolute fact that health care, or medical services are NOT a right. You don't have a right to anyone else's labor, and that includes doctors, and nurses.
 
j-mac said:
1. Where did I say smoking was a right? Please post that for me....Also, in regards to smoking, cigarettes are among the most heavily taxed item in our society today. To the point where places like NY are creating a black market for them, so spare me the complaining about people buying freely a legal product and using it, while you reap the benefits of increased tax revenue from that product...You want to stop people from smoking tobacco? Make it illegal. Good luck.

2. OH, I realize we started with the city, and now we are on to state wide, as the figures you are posting here also move to....In that regard I don't think people are flocking to live in the city...But that is my opinion...To me it would be foolish to move to NYC today, cost of living, taxation, and even crime in the city are all on the rise...Hell to live there you have to make a pretty penny just to eek out a middle class living situation. Enough that would put you in the upper middle anywhere else.

3. I read just fine, so you can save your personal insults (I know it is a standard conversational dialect for NY'ers),n It doesn't matter whether you say 'economically', 'actually', or 'I just want it to be', that changes nothing in the absolute fact that health care, or medical services are NOT a right. You don't have a right to anyone else's labor, and that includes doctors, and nurses.
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1. So now we have gone from Bloomberg to smoking. I pointed it out because YOUR OP PIECE was mad at the SMOKING BAN. I just pointed out it wasn't a right just like you pointed out healthcare is not a right. You still haven't shown me what freedoms are being threatened.

2. My initial reply was to NYC hence the references to Times Square. Then you reply with 1.6 million leaving NYS from 2001 to 2011. So I replied with some more current figures that show an increase of 4% or so. Not to mention your original comment was about WEALTH leaving NYC which you haven't backed up at all. As I stated earlier NYC is thriving with new tech companies, finance of course along with the completion of the Freedom Tower. Even 2 new ballparks along with the elimination of the chop shops near Citi Field. You are right about the cost, it is high. Its why I am in the far suburbs. The well to do are continuing to move there. However your initial post claimed WEALTH was LEAVING the city. Its NOT. You are now contradicting your original assertion.

3. You really do have a reading comprehension problem. Try reading my post again. We treat healthcare in this country as an ECONOMIC right whether you agree with it or not. THAT IS FACT. The way we do it through emergency rooms instead of preventive medicine makes little economic sense but that is where we are. And yea us New Yawkers have an attitude. Don't like it? Tough! You cons haven't eliminated freedom of speech just yet.
 
Hari Seldon said:
1. So now we have gone from Bloomberg to smoking. I pointed it out because YOUR OP PIECE was mad at the SMOKING BAN. I just pointed out it wasn't a right just like you pointed out healthcare is not a right. You still haven't shown me what freedoms are being threatened.

2. My initial reply was to NYC hence the references to Times Square. Then you reply with 1.6 million leaving NYS from 2001 to 2011. So I replied with some more current figures that show an increase of 4% or so. Not to mention your original comment was about WEALTH leaving NYC which you haven't backed up at all. As I stated earlier NYC is thriving with new tech companies, finance of course along with the completion of the Freedom Tower. Even 2 new ballparks along with the elimination of the chop shops near Citi Field. You are right about the cost, it is high. Its why I am in the far suburbs. The well to do are continuing to move there. However your initial post claimed WEALTH was LEAVING the city. Its NOT. You are now contradicting your original assertion.

3. You really do have a reading comprehension problem. Try reading my post again. We treat healthcare in this country as an ECONOMIC right whether you agree with it or not. THAT IS FACT. The way we do it through emergency rooms instead of preventive medicine makes little economic sense but that is where we are. And yea us New Yawkers have an attitude. Don't like it? Tough! You cons haven't eliminated freedom of speech just yet.
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Well, we're done here....We obviously aren't going to agree on much if anything, and I don't feel like putting up with the boorish NY attitude...So, have fun with that...Besides football is on, and it's a lot more interesting than wading through your Bull ****.
 
j-mac said:
Well, we're done here....We obviously aren't going to agree on much if anything, and I don't feel like putting up with the boorish NY attitude...So, have fun with that...Besides football is on, and it's a lot more interesting than wading through your Bull ****.
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When you can't defend your posts or address mine I guess its safer to call it bull****. Just remember when you are riding around the country an emergency room is ready to help.......whether you can pay or not. And in NY style don't let the door hit you on the azz on the way out. :mrgreen::2wave:
 
Hari Seldon said:
When you can't defend your posts or address mine I guess its safer to call it bull****. Just remember when you are riding around the country an emergency room is ready to help.......whether you can pay or not. And in NY style don't let the door hit you on the azz on the way out. :mrgreen::2wave:
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Nah, I can defend my points quite well, you just bore me....I lived in Maryland for 20 years, and had my share of dealings with people like you from NY, Philly, all through that corridor, and frankly, my conclusion is that you really are not in here to discuss anything, merely insult, and bait others, and I am not the one to take your bait....Sorry, maybe when football isn't on I'll think about giving you another chance...But like I said for now, no chance.
 
j-mac said:
Nah, I can defend my points quite well, you just bore me....I lived in Maryland for 20 years, and had my share of dealings with people like you from NY, Philly, all through that corridor, and frankly, my conclusion is that you really are not in here to discuss anything, merely insult, and bait others, and I am not the one to take your bait....Sorry, maybe when football isn't on I'll think about giving you another chance...But like I said for now, no chance.
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I'm sure you know me very well from some posts on a forum. We are all alike here in the North East. :doh I addressed every point you made in detail with my own opinions, personal observations and some research. Only a few paragraphs but since its too much for you that's okay. I will just have to get over it. I'm certainly grateful you are even thinking of giving me another chance. I hope everyone in South Carolina isn't as "sensitive".
 
Helix said:
i've seen Ryan's budget proposals, and i disagree with him on almost everything except for reducing deficits. as for him wanting to do the right thing, yeah, i'd say that's fair. but he's a trickle downer, and at this point on the Laffer curve, i support more demand side measures. believe it or not, i do support supply side corrections in certain scenarios, such as when the tax rates are historically high. that's not the case currently, though.

as for his proposal to dismantle medicare, i'm one hundred percent against that. i support expanding medicare to replace our current inefficient universal health care policy.
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My P. Ryan comments seem to have overshadowed my real point.
That current GOP ways and means chair D. Camp has a tax overhaul plan in Boehner's curcular file gathering Reid-type dust.
Many of his proposals look like yours and I expect Ryan to wield a much heavier stick in this area next year as the new chair .
 
Helix said:
there's a difference between a small business using a minor loophole to save a little money and a global corporation using a headquartering scam to avoid almost all taxes. sort of like the difference between a playground fistfight and a world war.

either way, my plan would solve it : cut the corporate tax rate significantly, collect it from every corporation, and tax individual income instead.
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Neither a playground fight or a world war is slimy. People do what they have to do. And neither is legally organizing your business to benefit ownership, regardless of the size of your business. But we agree in the practicals. Cut the corporate tax rate to 0, tax individuals only, and collect it from everyone.
 
j-mac said:
Nah, I can defend my points quite well, you just bore me....I lived in Maryland for 20 years, and had my share of dealings with people like you from NY, Philly, all through that corridor, and frankly, my conclusion is that
you really are not in here to discuss anything, merely insult, and bait others, and I am not the one to take your bait....
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Sorry, maybe when football isn't on I'll think about giving you another chance...But like I said for now, no chance.
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There's a nice, succinct, word for that and there are others on this very thread noted for that.
 
jonny5 said:
Neither a playground fight or a world war is slimy. People do what they have to do. And neither is legally organizing your business to benefit ownership, regardless of the size of your business. But we agree in the practicals. Cut the corporate tax rate to 0, tax individuals only, and collect it from everyone.
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i'd probably agree to cutting it to ten percent if all individual income was taxed as income above a cap.
 
jonny5 said:
Did someone deny that? I made no such claim that they cant be taxed. I took issue with your claiming that they should be taxed because they are people.
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They should be taxed because they have ability to influence the government. Access costs money, there's no such thing as a free lunch.
 
Helix said:
i'd probably agree to cutting it to ten percent if all individual income was taxed as income above a cap.
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It would be a good start so long as that bottom was poverty level and we got rid of all deductions and credits.
 
Ikari said:
They should be taxed because they have ability to influence the government. Access costs money, there's no such thing as a free lunch.
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So then you agree corporations are not people?
 
mac said:
No. I didn't say they were "flesh and blood" people.
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You said they have the same rights as people according to law and then linked wikipedia which says "The doctrine does not hold that corporations are flesh and blood "people" apart from their shareholders, executives, and managers, nor does it grant to corporations all of the rights of citizens." Which is not a law, nor does it back up your claim. Just say youre wrong.
 
jonny5 said:
It would be a good start so long as that bottom was poverty level and we got rid of all deductions and credits.
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can you expand on that?

my plan would be to debate a cap above which all income (including investment income) is taxed as income. i would raise the lower brackets slightly as well, so that the increased burden didn't fall solely on the very wealthy. probably 1990s marginal rates.
 
jonny5 said:
You said they have the same rights as people according to law and then linked wikipedia which says "The doctrine does not hold that corporations are flesh and blood "people" apart from their shareholders, executives, and managers, nor does it grant to corporations all of the rights of citizens." Which is not a law, nor does it back up your claim. Just say youre wrong.
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If you go on to read the rest, you'll see scotus decision after decision that grants these rights to corporations. Scotus decisions have the weight of law until reversed by scouts itself. So, while there may be no law specifically defining corporations as people, there is plethora of precedent doing just that.
 
Phoenix said:
Fox News Link


I am wondering how his constituents that are employed by Burger King feel about this. Way to throw them under the bus Sherrod.
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I love how democrats talk **** about corporations then act baffled when they move...

Yeah well - if you talked your ass off about me in a room and degraded me because I left don't act shocked.

The audacity of the left is astounding... In some weird way they actually believe the US government owns businesses, yet they deny they're socialists...

Maybe they outta rethink their entire social and economic philosophy before they go denying their socialism/communism ideals.
 
Helix said:
can you expand on that?

my plan would be to debate a cap above which all income (including investment income) is taxed as income. i would raise the lower brackets slightly as well, so that the increased burden didn't fall solely on the very wealthy. probably 1990s marginal rates.
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Thats the same thing. Give everyone a 10k deduction, tax everything else, flat rate.
 
mac said:
If you go on to read the rest, you'll see scotus decision after decision that grants these rights to corporations. Scotus decisions have the weight of law until reversed by scouts itself. So, while there may be no law specifically defining corporations as people, there is plethora of precedent doing just that.
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So then you were wrong when you said there was a law which stated that corporations were the same as people.
 
sangha said:
YOu know, I might be mistaken. I might have posted them in the other thread about this topic, so here it is, just for you (because you asked so nicely)

International taxation - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Look at the table
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The table is about individual taxation. Did you really post this twice on another thread or are you seriously mixing up topics. Regardless, corporate taxation is more complex than a simple yes or no in a Wikipedia table. It is also what is except and what receives foreign income tax credits.

Not sure why you are trying to make this topic so simplistic. Yes, BK is doing this for both market and tax reasons. According to BK, it is mostly for the former.
 
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