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Ohio Sen. Sherrod Brown calls for Burger King boycott over Tim Hortons deal

JasperL said:
A VAT is functionally equivalent (in theory) to a retail sales tax, or at least that is the way VAT's operate in most of the developed world. Producers get a credit for the VAT paid at earlier levels of production/distribution. The only step where there is no credit is the final sale to the non-business consumer, who pays the entire tax at point of sale.

The advantages of a VAT to the RST are administrative, and historical. The credit makes it easier to enforce a VAT - there is no advantage to an upstream buyer for downstream producers to evade the VAT because evasion reduces the credit available. Also, the RST has traditionally excluded most services, but the VAT taxes 'value added' which would effectively include all services in the tax base. So the base is broader and enforcement arguably easier, which allows for a lower rate to collect the same revenue

Two big advantages to a VAT over RST - businesses pay a lot of RST, maybe 40%, depending on the estimate, and exported goods include that imbedded RST in the cost, raising the after tax cost for U.S. made goods. With a VAT, 100% of the tax paid during U.S. production can be rebated at the border and goods exported free of VAT, which should increase the competitiveness of U.S. made goods relative to current law. And VAT is fully assessed on all imports.
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VAT's are a bad idea. They lend to inflation, and hit the poor the hardest.

PORT WASHINGTON, N.Y. (MarketWatch) -- The last thing this economy needs is a value-added tax.

Let's call a spade a spade. A value-added tax or VAT is a sales tax in disguise.

It is not a painless way of raising revenue as some would have you believe.

If anything, a VAT is a painful approach to generating the funds the government needs because of a number of reasons.

First, like any sales tax, it hits the poor much harder than it does the rich. This is because everyone pays the same percentage tax, but since the poor spend all of their income and then some, their overall tax burden will be higher with a VAT than those who are wealthy and thus don't spend all that they earn.

Furthermore, in case you haven't thought of it, the imposition of a VAT would have the practical effect of reversing our progressive tax structure -- the holy grail of Democratic administrations since the federal income tax was enacted nearly a century ago.

Don't fall into the VAT - MarketWatch
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PoS said:
BK isnt moving its HQ to Canada because of taxes since they pay less than 35%, they want to acquire Tim Horton's for its donuts and breakfast stuff so they can compete better. Brown is just another moronic politician who should be booted from office, he doesnt know what the hell he's talking about.
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BK is moving their HQ to Canada for tax reasons, but the reason they are merging with Tim Horton's is because their competitors, like McDonald's, have been moving heavily into the coffee and specialty coffee business and Tim Horton's gives BK immediate and proven entry into that part of the business. Tim Horton's also sees BK as a benefit to them in expanding their brand and reach into other countries they currently aren't in. In the US, Tim Horton's tried to expand but was only really successful in the northern regions bordering Canada but failed miserably when it tried to go up against Duncan Donuts in New England - being aligned with BK may make their entry into other US markets more successful and will help with joint ventures in other countries.
 
Fenton said:
Well the issue remains and this idiot of a Politician completely missed the point.

America's High Corporate tax rate is COSTING us revenues......and jobs.
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It's funny how the left wants companies to keep their HQ's here, for the sole reason that they will pay more taxes. Can someone that believes in this tell us what the rational would be to run your business that way?

And I am sure those people will also be able to come up with many examples where they insist on paying a higher price for something because it will result in paying more taxes.
 
CanadaJohn said:
BK is moving their HQ to Canada for tax reasons, but the reason they are merging with Tim Horton's is because their competitors, like McDonald's, have been moving heavily into the coffee and specialty coffee business and Tim Horton's gives BK immediate and proven entry into that part of the business. Tim Horton's also sees BK as a benefit to them in expanding their brand and reach into other countries they currently aren't in. In the US, Tim Horton's tried to expand but was only really successful in the northern regions bordering Canada but failed miserably when it tried to go up against Duncan Donuts in New England - being aligned with BK may make their entry into other US markets more successful and will help with joint ventures in other countries.
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A pretty good summation jcj.
My wife and I have gone to many a Tim Horton's in our travels together to ME, NH and VT since the 1980's.
IIRC, they're not just limited to breakfast/coffee etc. either.
Then there's competition from Friendly's also.

As for dunkin donuts, my cousins and Aunts/Uncles got me started there back in the 1970's.
They're even here in my Illinois county.

Have you been to any Blimpie's?
They seemed to be in every small town on US 11 from the VT border through the top of NY all the way to Watertown.
Quite an Amish area on US 11 also .
 
Travis007 said:
yes we need a nanny state...
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No, we need a non-obesity state.
Sure would cut down on all the money lost by the federal government with "free" emergency room care .
 
NIMBY said:
No, we need a non-obesity state.
Sure would cut down on all the money lost by the federal government with "free" emergency room care .
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yea.. cut down on those "whopper overdosing"?
 
Montecresto said:
That is beside the point that we keep hearing conservatives claim that the US at 35% has the highest tax rate in the world, which is irrelevant sense nobody pays 35%!
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You're not paying attention, are you. There are deductions no matter what country you live in. We have one of the highest statutory rates. We also have one of the highest EFFECTIVE rates. The fact that the statutory rate and the effective rate aren't the same is just a red herring. And the tax RATE is just PART of the problem. The fact that unlike MOST developed nations, we expect corporate tax on every dollar of profit generated by any US multinational anywhere on the planet really compounds the problem. The bottom line here is that the US Tax system puts US multinationals at a global disadvantage to corporations from other countries. That's why they're inverting.
 
NIMBY said:
No, we need a non-obesity state.
Sure would cut down on all the money lost by the federal government with "free" emergency room care .
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So you want government to control your behavior for you?
 
NIMBY said:
A pretty good summation jcj.
My wife and I have gone to many a Tim Horton's in our travels together to ME, NH and VT since the 1980's.
IIRC, they're not just limited to breakfast/coffee etc. either.
Then there's competition from Friendly's also.

As for dunkin donuts, my cousins and Aunts/Uncles got me started there back in the 1970's.
They're even here in my Illinois county.

Have you been to any Blimpie's?
They seemed to be in every small town on US 11 from the VT border through the top of NY all the way to Watertown.
Quite an Amish area on US 11 also .
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Good afternoon NIMBY - hope all is well

Thanks for correcting my stupid spelling - it is indeed Dunkin' Donuts - I'm lucky I didn't spell it Doughnuts too!!

You're right about Tim Horton's - they expanded into a lunch menu about a decade ago, opening up sit-down eating areas, etc. becoming more of a sandwich shop in that respect and filling a niche that went wanting here for a long time - they change things up on a regular basis and have seasonal fare as well.

But not all things that are booming successes in Canada translate into equal success in the US - I remember Canadian Tire, iconic here in Canada, venturing into the US and getting slaughtered. Seems our banks do pretty good business in the US though.

Can't say I remember being in a Blimpie's, but if it's been around a long time I probably visited at some point in my travels in the US, although I haven't been on a US road trip in a long time.
 
j-mac said:
VAT's are a bad idea. They lend to inflation, and hit the poor the hardest.
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VAT's are a bad idea since Canada has one right?
But inversions are a good idea since Canada allows them right?
And IKE was not a holy grail DEM right?

IIRC, President Eisenhower had the most progressive tax structure of any POTUS since WW2.
And GOPs love to point out that JFK began changing that.
Please correct me if I'm wrong on any of this since I'm not an "expert" on the economy as Boehner has also said many times.

And I'll repeat myself from past posts.
The sooner both camps look back at the "small" agreement between Rep. Ryan and Sen. Murray from last December the better.
It has prevented government shutdowns ever since .
 
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j-mac said:
So you want government to control your behavior for you?
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How come conservatives never see a middle ground between "ignore the problem" and "federally mandated food portioning?"
 
NIMBY said:
No, we need a non-obesity state.
Sure would cut down on all the money lost by the federal government with "free" emergency room care .
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It is a common myth that obesity costs the health care system extra money. Obese people cost less money than thin people because they are less likely to visit the doctor and more likely to die suddenly and never incur the expensive care one receives with protracted illness.

This is also true for smokers.
 
Papa bull said:
You're not paying attention, are you. There are deductions no matter what country you live in. We have one of the highest statutory rates. We also have one of the highest EFFECTIVE rates. The fact that the statutory rate and the effective rate aren't the same is just a red herring. And the tax RATE is just PART of the problem. The fact that unlike MOST developed nations, we expect corporate tax on every dollar of profit generated by any US multinational anywhere on the planet really compounds the problem. The bottom line here is that the US Tax system puts US multinationals at a global disadvantage to corporations from other countries. That's why they're inverting.
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Nor are you. I've not argued that corporations aren't paying hire taxes in America then other places, only that its not 35%, that's all.
 
jmotivator said:
It is a common myth that obesity costs the health care system extra money. Obese people cost less money than thin people because they are less likely to visit the doctor and more likely to die suddenly and never incur the expensive care one receives with protracted illness.

This is also true for smokers.
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The solution, of course, is to grind up the elderly into fertilizer and use it to grow more corn so we can stuff more corn syrup into things like bread.

That's like four birds with one stone.
 
j-mac said:
So you want government to control your behavior for you?
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Well first of all I didn't say I wanted government to control my behavior and you know that.
And I doubt you're satisfied with the stress on our Health system from unforced obesity errors .
 
NIMBY said:
VAT's are a bad idea since Canada has one right?
But inversions are a good idea since Canada allows them right?
And IKE was not a holy grail DEM right?

IIRC, President Eisenhower had the most progressive tax structure of any POTUS since WW2.
And GOPs love to point out that JFK began changing that.
Please correct me if I'm wrong on any of this since I'm not an "expert" on the economy as Boehner has also said many times.

And I'll repeat my self from past posts.
The sooner both camps look back at the "small" agreement between Rep. Ryan and Sen. Murray from last December the better.
It has prevented government shutdowns ever since .
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Actually, NIMBY, Canada hasn't had a VAT for a couple of decades now - it was replaced by a federal sales tax that is applied to all transactions for goods and services at every level of sale with very few exceptions. Our GST, which replaced the VAT, is considered far more transparent and fair because it hits all businesses and consumers equally and it isn't hidden within the price tag of a finished product. It's not very popular, perhaps because people can actually see how they're getting gouged by the taxman now.

As for reducing corporate taxes in the US, President Kennedy did it to great success, reducing the rates significantly and increasing economic activity and revenue to the US treasury. President Reagan did likewise when he inherited a recession upon taking office, with the same great effect. President Bush 2 did likewise, after the intel bubble burst on the stock market and 9/11, with similar increases in tax revenue from lower rates.

The choice seems to be, at least to me, do you want to gouge business so they refuse to expand and hire, or would it be better to take less from them, have them hire more people who pay taxes and buy goods, expanding the economy exponentially, and increasing tax revenue in the process? I'll take the latter every time.
 
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Deuce said:
How come conservatives never see a middle ground between "ignore the problem" and "federally mandated food portioning?"
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How come Deuces use absolutes to complain about the use of absolutes?

It's a mystery.
 
Got super-size?
Any idea which decade the fast-food economy skyrocketed?
All those Reagan jobs that are the first to go in an economic downcycle!

The 1980's will be forever known as the start of the $400 plus billion dollar deficits.

To be fair to GOPs, which will not be reciprocated during the Obama era,
Tip O'Neill deserves every bit of my vitriolic enmity for getting "his" as Reagan does for getting "his" .
Travis007 said:
yea.. cut down on those "whopper overdosing"?
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Deuce said:
The solution, of course, is to grind up the elderly into fertilizer and use it to grow more corn so we can stuff more corn syrup into things like bread.

That's like four birds with one stone.
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Just grind up the dead fat people. It's more economical by the pound than elderly corpses and more nutritious.
 
CanadaJohn said:
Can't say I remember being in a Blimpie's,
but if it's been around a long time I probably visited at some point in my travels in the US, although I haven't been on a US road trip in a long time.
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Thanks for being a conservative on this thread with a great demeanor.
The "Linc" in me is reemerging and I'm happy about that.

I quoted this part of your post for a reason.

Don't wait until you retire before you take long road trips in the USA, not to mention your own great Canada.
I still remember the sight of the Regina skyline when we seemed to come around a big bend on Canada 1 IIRC.
Now Thunder Bay, there's a wild-ass town.
The Al-Can to Alaska--the Icefields Parkway from Banff to Jasper--the diagonal from Golden, BC to Vancouver and so many more.

On a solo to Utah once to see a recommended place known as the "slot canyons", I hiked with a great couple from Toronto.
They were into the greenhouse business growing things like tomatoes.

It's still the people you meet, the places you go and the things you do on these trips.
It made going back to teach all the more inspiring for me .
 
NIMBY said:
Got super-size?
Any idea which decade the fast-food economy skyrocketed?
All those Reagan jobs that are the first to go in an economic downcycle!

The 1980's will be forever known as the start of the $400 plus billion dollar deficits.

To be fair to GOPs, which will not be reciprocated during the Obama era,
Tip O'Neill deserves every bit of my vitriolic enmity for getting "his" as Reagan does for getting "his" .
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But I thought deficits don't matter??
 
I've been boycotting BurgerKing for several years now because they did a major menu revamp.
 
Montecresto said:
Nor are you. I've not argued that corporations aren't paying hire taxes in America then other places, only that its not 35%, that's all.
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You're splitting hairs. I think everyone recognizes the difference between the statutory rate and the effective rate but if they didn't, they should now.
 
Montecresto said:
Has it escaped you that the rate is rather irrelevant, considering its not what they actually pay.
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Have you considered that the rate they actually pay is still higher than in Canada?
 
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