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ISIS Demands $6.6M Ransom for 26-Year-Old American Woman.....

You seem confused.

Yes, i believe she is on her own, and to bomb the crap out of those who kidnapped her. If she survives great, if she doesn't then I can only express my sympathy. When we put ourselves in harm's way we have to accept that responsibility.

Yeah, I figured that to be your position. Glad that you have zero influence on American policy.
 
My feeling is that she, like many who enter dangerous territory, is acceptive of her fate. Many of those who have been beheaded by Islamists have died silently, stoically and bravely.

Post 226
 
He didn't create a power vacuum. When we left, there was a semi-stable government in place.

Wrong, it was an unequal government from its inception and never would have answered. Look, its arrogant to think you can go conduct regime change and declare democracy, and then walk away. You either don't leave at all after forcing people to do something at gun point or you you change people's minds and hearts thru peaceful means. But the US is the snot nosed kid on the block in terms of age, and as such inexperienced at it. Worst thing is that, democracy is quite threatened at home and civil liberties are eroding daily, yet were trying to force democracy at gun point over yonder, and we have people, here on this board even, that defend both.
 
Cephus!?!? Did you read what Grant said to me? It's his position that the ME's oil belongs to the world. I was pointing out his position in my post you quoted. I believe that the ME oil belongs to the citizens of the ME and they should nationalise it and enjoy the proceeds.

What they choose to do with their natural resources is their business, not yours. We have no say whatsoever.
 
What they choose to do with their natural resources is their business, not yours. We have no say whatsoever.

How many ways must I phrase it that its my opinion that the natural resources in the Middle East belong to the citizens thereof, before you understand that you and I agree??
 
How many ways must I phrase it that its my opinion that the natural resources in the Middle East belong to the citizens thereof, before you understand that you and I agree??

You're welcome to your opinion. That and $10 will get you a latte at Starbucks. Whether it belongs to the citizens or not is up to the people of the Middle East to decide, your opinion and my opinion and everyone in the west's opinion means squat.
 
Cephus!?!? Did you read what Grant said to me? It's his position that the ME's oil belongs to the world. I was pointing out his position in my post you quoted. I believe that the ME oil belongs to the citizens of the ME and they should nationalise it and enjoy the proceeds.
Huh??? Where did i say that?

If you don't know how to use quotes, ask someone who does.
 
You're welcome to your opinion. That and $10 will get you a latte at Starbucks. Whether it belongs to the citizens or not is up to the people of the Middle East to decide, your opinion and my opinion and everyone in the west's opinion means squat.

Uh, sure ok dude.
 
Um... no. Not any more than America's natural resources belong to the world. It's their oil, they get to decide what to do with it. Where did you get that idiotic idea anyhow?

Looks like you have an opinion right here. And you and I agree. But you misread my post and have been arguing falsely ever since.
 
Pay the ransom? Idoicy.

Pay the ransom, the girl is released...and ISIS kidnaps more Americans because apparently it's a profitable venture. America is seen as spineless and can be easily bullied into paying ransom for citizens.

They will continue to try and kidnap Americans regardless. It is a propaganda coup to kidnap an American whether they are used for ransom or execution. It is simplistic to assume that this really has an impact on their calculus. We have paid ransoms for decades to these sorts of groups. Sometimes they ransom them, sometimes they exchange them, sometimes they just execute them or have we already forgotten Foley and Daniel Pearl? Saving life should be a priority in these cases, not pointless posturing.
 
What do we have to do about her? She went to Syria of her own accord. How is that the responsibility of the United States government?

The United States has always taken an interest in the affairs of its citizens abroad. We have routinely (from the time of Washington onward) engaged in financial, political, or military dealings for the sake of protecting, saving, or ameliorating the difficulties of our citizens around the world. I think this is a principle we should retain.
 
Uh, sure ok dude.

When it comes to another culture, we have to understand that our opinions mean nothing. It means about as much to them as my opinion about what you should have for lunch means to you. That's something they get to decide for themselves, using whatever criteria they decide to use. They have, or at least ought to have, the right to self determination. However, the United States has stuffed our nose in their business for so long, we've pushed them to become a western-style democracy, to do what we want them to do, we've spent so much time ordering the planet around because we've got a big dick and we want to swing it, we've lost the realization that it's their nation and their culture to do with as they choose, so long as they don't go around and attack us and involve us in their mess.

What the Middle East wants to do with their oil is up to them. Our desires don't amount to a hill of beans. We have no claim whatsoever on their natural resources.
 
The United States has always taken an interest in the affairs of its citizens abroad. We have routinely (from the time of Washington onward) engaged in financial, political, or military dealings for the sake of protecting, saving, or ameliorating the difficulties of our citizens around the world. I think this is a principle we should retain.

If someone does something stupid and walks into a war zone, they take responsibility for their own actions.
 
You've gone back to making the same straw man argument. It isn't about the amount of weaponry sold, it is about who it was sold to. Russian weaponry has killed far more civilians than US weapons have... but I am sure you aren't counting the millions dead at the hands of the Chinese, the North Koreans, the Viet Cong and The Khmer Rouge just for starters.

Also note that your new evidence for your straw man argument proves your initial argument was also false:



Again, FALSE! :lamo

You said in the last forty years, now you want to go back eighty. Can't debate like that. Furthermore. I said the US was the biggest arms dealer and you came back and said no, that Russia is. So I said fine, then the US is the second biggest, and then you said no, China, Iran and a couple others were in front of us. And then I proved you wrong on that, too!
 
They will continue to try and kidnap Americans regardless. It is a propaganda coup to kidnap an American whether they are used for ransom or execution. It is simplistic to assume that this really has an impact on their calculus. We have paid ransoms for decades to these sorts of groups. Sometimes they ransom them, sometimes they exchange them, sometimes they just execute them or have we already forgotten Foley and Daniel Pearl? Saving life should be a priority in these cases, not pointless posturing.

And that's up to them but they have to own the consequences of their actions. If they want to kidnap American citizens, then maybe we'll just use their leaders for pinpoint bombing practice. If they choose to hide among their civilian population, that's their choice, maybe their civilians ought to hold their leadership responsible for their bad leadership decisions.
 
When it comes to another culture, we have to understand that our opinions mean nothing. It means about as much to them as my opinion about what you should have for lunch means to you. That's something they get to decide for themselves, using whatever criteria they decide to use. They have, or at least ought to have, the right to self determination. However, the United States has stuffed our nose in their business for so long, we've pushed them to become a western-style democracy, to do what we want them to do, we've spent so much time ordering the planet around because we've got a big dick and we want to swing it, we've lost the realization that it's their nation and their culture to do with as they choose, so long as they don't go around and attack us and involve us in their mess.

What the Middle East wants to do with their oil is up to them. Our desires don't amount to a hill of beans. We have no claim whatsoever on their natural resources.

Why are you speaking to me about this as though we disagree? JFC dude, get a grip on this!
 
The United States has always taken an interest in the affairs of its citizens abroad. We have routinely (from the time of Washington onward) engaged in financial, political, or military dealings for the sake of protecting, saving, or ameliorating the difficulties of our citizens around the world. I think this is a principle we should retain.

Agreed!
 
Wrong, it was an unequal government from its inception and never would have answered. Look, its arrogant to think you can go conduct regime change and declare democracy, and then walk away. You either don't leave at all after forcing people to do something at gun point or you you change people's minds and hearts thru peaceful means. But the US is the snot nosed kid on the block in terms of age, and as such inexperienced at it. Worst thing is that, democracy is quite threatened at home and civil liberties are eroding daily, yet were trying to force democracy at gun point over yonder, and we have people, here on this board even, that defend both.

Actually Roadvirus is correct. Obama Flashback: 'We're Leaving Behind a Sovereign, Stable and Self-Reliant Iraq'
 
What do we have to do about her? She went to Syria of her own accord. How is that the responsibility of the United States government?

I agree with you. She has to accept the consequences of her actions, as we all do.

But having said that I believe her kidnappers and their supporters should be bombed back to the stone age, not a very long trip anyway.
 
I agree with you. She has to accept the consequences of her actions, as we all do.

But having said that I believe her kidnappers and their supporters should be bombed back to the stone age, not a very long trip anyway.

I'm fine with that, if for no other reason than to discourage them from messing with American citizens for potential profit. If you kidnap our people, if you kill our people, we're going to blow the crap out of you and out of your civilian population. We will hurt you far worse than you hurt us and the more you do it, the more it will escalate until there's none of you left.
 
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