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Thread: Attorney: New audio reveals pause in gunfire when Michael Brown was shot[W:72,732]

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    Re: Attorney: New audio reveals pause in gunfire when Michael Brown was shot[W:72,732

    Quote Originally Posted by buck View Post
    Except that Josie has already indicated that the reason he put the car in reverse was that hte call came over the radio and he realized that the two were involved. The police have already indicated that Josie's account matches the account that Wilson gave to them.
    let me make sure i understand what you are telling us
    that the cop, at the moment he told the pedestrians to get out of the street, was unaware that these were the perps
    but that mere seconds later it dawned on him that the pedestrians were the strong-arm robbery suspects
    and he then backed up, without operating the sirens and lights in that pursuit, to confront them
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    Re: Attorney: New audio reveals pause in gunfire when Michael Brown was shot[W:72,732

    Quote Originally Posted by justabubba View Post
    another possible motive for his actions was the failure of the pedestrians to leave the road way and get on the road side, thereby disrespecting the police officer and his instructions
    don't recall reading that he activated his lights/siren, as might be expected in a pursuit
    that failure may be indicative that he was personally piqued rather than professionally responsive
    It is possible. But it wouldn't explain why he was so "urgent" about it, so adamant about getting Brown into the police vehicle. There would be no reason for him to have acted that way for a couple of guys to just have been walking down the middle of the street. Now, technically, considering they were walking down the middle of the street, impeding potential traffic and putting themselves and others in danger, he could be justified in stopping them again for not adhering to the first instructions.

    Why would he activate his sirens for pedestrians? They didn't have a car and were only a few feet away. Nothing about him not activating his sirens indicates in any way that he wasn't stopping them because of suspecting them of the robbery. In fact, it goes more into that belief, since it indicates that he might have believed that they would have run from him had he immediately put on his sirens and came in reverse towards them, particularly if they had just committed a crime. On the other hand, him just driving back towards them could be viewed as him just wanting to talk to them so he then could get close enough to actually arrest them, or so he probably thought.
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    Re: Attorney: New audio reveals pause in gunfire when Michael Brown was shot[W:72,732

    Quote Originally Posted by justabubba View Post
    let me make sure i understand what you are telling us
    that the cop, at the moment he told the pedestrians to get out of the street, was unaware that these were the perps
    but that mere seconds later it dawned on him that the pedestrians were the strong-arm robbery suspects
    and he then backed up, without operating the sirens and lights in that pursuit, to confront them
    You don't think this could happen? Heck, it is possible that he knew about the robbery but didn't make the connection until he pulled away from them and he noticed something.

    It would have been stupid to put on his sirens. They were walking, not in a vehicle. This puts him at a disadvantage if, upon seeing the sirens, they decided to simply run from him. He would then have two suspects fleeing, likely in different directions, with him still in his vehicle in the middle of the street. He wouldn't really know whether they were armed or not, even if he got the report that the robbery did not involve weapons.
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    Re: Attorney: New audio reveals pause in gunfire when Michael Brown was shot[W:72,732

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    It is possible. But it wouldn't explain why he was so "urgent" about it, so adamant about getting Brown into the police vehicle. There would be no reason for him to have acted that way for a couple of guys to just have been walking down the middle of the street. Now, technically, considering they were walking down the middle of the street, impeding potential traffic and putting themselves and others in danger, he could be justified in stopping them again for not adhering to the first instructions.

    Why would he activate his sirens for pedestrians? They didn't have a car and were only a few feet away. Nothing about him not activating his sirens indicates in any way that he wasn't stopping them because of suspecting them of the robbery. In fact, it goes more into that belief, since it indicates that he might have believed that they would have run from him had he immediately put on his sirens and came in reverse towards them, particularly if they had just committed a crime. On the other hand, him just driving back towards them could be viewed as him just wanting to talk to them so he then could get close enough to actually arrest them, or so he probably thought.
    Okay, let's think about what you're saying. Do you truly believe that the officer wanted to get Brown into the vehicle by (assuming he was in fact told of the robbery and was acting on that) pulling him through the window? Seriously?

    You do know that makes no sense right? Those apprehended by the police are generally placed in the back of the vehicle.

    It make about as much sense as Brown, who was JUST shot at, turns around to dare the officer who was shooting at him... to shoot. Then, no longer afraid of being shot, charged like a bull at the officer. Sure, it's possible... but highly unlikely.

    For your scenario to make sense, you have to suspend all belief that the officer would actually act inappropriately. Is it not just as probable the officer was an asshole that was power-trippin' and that was the only reason this entire encounter occurred?
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    Re: Attorney: New audio reveals pause in gunfire when Michael Brown was shot[W:72,732

    Quote Originally Posted by Tettsuo View Post
    Okay, let's think about what you're saying. Do you truly believe that the officer wanted to get Brown into the vehicle by (assuming he was in fact told of the robbery and was acting on that) pulling him through the window? Seriously?

    You do know that makes no sense right? Those apprehended by the police are generally placed in the back of the vehicle.

    It make about as much sense as Brown, who was JUST shot at, turns around to dare the officer who was shooting at him... to shoot. Then, no longer afraid of being shot, charged like a bull at the officer. Sure, it's possible... but highly unlikely.

    For your scenario to make sense, you have to suspend all belief that the officer would actually act inappropriately. Is it not just as probable the officer was an asshole that was power-trippin' and that was the only reason this entire encounter occurred?
    I've never said the action was appropriate. It was likely done in the heat of the moment, an attempt to stop him from running after Wilson tried to open his door to get to them and had it shut back on him. He likely grabbed for them, and managed to get a hold on Brown. It doesn't make it right or wrong. It was almost certainly a reaction.

    It is much more probable that the officer was trying to stop them for suspicion of being the robbery suspects than for him simply being on a power trip. There is no indication (so far) that this officer was the type to go on "power trips" to begin with. There is an indication though that he is willing to stop and detain/apprehend suspects when they are suspected of having committed a crime since that is what he basically got his commendation for about 6 months before the incident.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

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    Re: Attorney: New audio reveals pause in gunfire when Michael Brown was shot[W:72,732

    Quote Originally Posted by justabubba View Post
    let me make sure i understand what you are telling us
    that the cop, at the moment he told the pedestrians to get out of the street, was unaware that these were the perps
    but that mere seconds later it dawned on him that the pedestrians were the strong-arm robbery suspects
    and he then backed up, without operating the sirens and lights in that pursuit, to confront them
    I believe that the indication was that he initially stopped to get them out of hte road. He then started pulling away, then realized that the guy had cigars in his hand and matched the description.. Or the call came over the radio about the theft after he started pulling away.

    But yes. It makes sense that he would not have put the lights on for a handful of reasons.. one of which is that it was not a "pursuit". The two weren't running yet. T hey were walking int he middle of the street.

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    Re: Attorney: New audio reveals pause in gunfire when Michael Brown was shot[W:72,732

    Quote Originally Posted by Tettsuo View Post
    Okay, let's think about what you're saying. Do you truly believe that the officer wanted to get Brown into the vehicle by (assuming he was in fact told of the robbery and was acting on that) pulling him through the window? Seriously?
    I agree with you. Seems silly to beleive that a cop is trying ot pull a 300 lb guy through a window. Wether trying to get him in the car or not.

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    Re: Attorney: New audio reveals pause in gunfire when Michael Brown was shot[W:72,732

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    You don't think this could happen? Heck, it is possible that he knew about the robbery but didn't make the connection until he pulled away from them and he noticed something.
    no doubt, that is a possibility
    only it has been presented as what must have occurred ... and it is that assessment with which i disagree

    It would have been stupid to put on his sirens. They were walking, not in a vehicle. This puts him at a disadvantage if, upon seeing the sirens, they decided to simply run from him. He would then have two suspects fleeing, likely in different directions, with him still in his vehicle in the middle of the street. He wouldn't really know whether they were armed or not, even if he got the report that the robbery did not involve weapons.
    then it would appear your presentation is that by reversing his vehicle towards them, he was in stealth mode, attempting to conceal his intent to approach them, refusing to alert them of his intent with lights and siren
    and my conclusion is that this is a baseless premise, based on what has been presented
    the pedestrians did not leave the scene in their efforts to escape, recognizing the police vehicle was backing up towards them
    the patrol car driver-side door was opened against one of them, indicating they were in no hurry to avoid the cop's presence, otherwise, such contact would not have been made as they were fleeing the scene
    to me, this most indicates the pedestrians were indifferent to the patrolman's directions, both when he departed them initially, after telling them to get out of the street, and upon his return, when they had not. hardly the actions of parties concerned about being apprehended for their actions, as pedestrians or as strong-arm robbers
    my surmise is that this dismissal of the patrolman and his directions is what caused the cop to return towards the pedestrians in the unannounced manner, aggravated that they refused to heed his directions
    but my assessment is preliminary, formed by speculation, rather than the complete facts, which have yet to be disclosed
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    Re: Attorney: New audio reveals pause in gunfire when Michael Brown was shot[W:72,732

    Quote Originally Posted by Tettsuo View Post
    It make about as much sense as Brown, who was JUST shot at, turns around to dare the officer who was shooting at him... to shoot. Then, no longer afraid of being shot, charged like a bull at the officer. Sure, it's possible... but highly unlikely.
    Which would go to his not being shot at first.
    And the spontaneous witness clearly indicated that he continued toward the Officer as the Officer shot.
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    Re: Attorney: New audio reveals pause in gunfire when Michael Brown was shot[W:72,732

    This is a biased source.. and due to that bias they have some of this wrong... but.. Here is basically what the police chief said:

    But Darren Wilson, the officer who stopped Brown, wasn’t even aware that Brown was a suspect in the robbery, Ferguson Police Chief Thomas Jackson said Friday afternoon. The officer initially stopped Brown and his friend, Dorian Johnson, because the pair was walking in the middle of a residential street, Jackson said, an admission that provoked outrage from Brown’s family and attorneys.
    Hours later, Jackson appeared to change his story, telling NBC News that while the officer who shot Brown initially stopped him for walking in the street and blocking traffic, “at some point” during the encounter the officer saw cigars in Brown’s hands and thought he might be a suspect in the robbery.
    Again, that's the biased version. From the beginning the police chief indicated that Darren Wilson didn not "initially" stop them due to the cigar robbery. Note the use of the word initally.

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