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Thread: Attorney: New audio reveals pause in gunfire when Michael Brown was shot[W:72,732]

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    Re: Attorney: New audio reveals pause in gunfire when Michael Brown was shot

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    We don't know how it looked to the police officer. And even Johnson said that Brown's hands were far up. It could mean many things. We don't actually know what happened. In reality, you don't move toward the cop when he is holding a gun on you. You comply with instructions. If he didn't get a chance, then that is murder. If he didn't move and was actually surrendering, then it is most likely murder. We don't really know though, and witness testimony is not completely reliable. Plus, there is some that does match what little we got from the police so far, that Brown moved toward Wilson. It is even possible that the eye injury, even if just a punch that caused some swelling, could have affected his vision and forward movement did look threatening even if it was unintentional. If that is what happened, do you charge the cop anyway with shooting because he didn't know even if that is procedure? These are hard questions, but people need to understand that this is not a cut and dry situation.
    The cop put a stray bullet into someone's house. If he couldn't see, he shouldn't have been shooting.

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    Re: Attorney: New audio reveals pause in gunfire when Michael Brown was shot

    Quote Originally Posted by JC_CT View Post
    The cop put a stray bullet into someone's house. If he couldn't see, he shouldn't have been shooting.
    Which is something that should be addressed, but it depends on how much of loss of vision it may have been, if any. Judgment call at the moment. Its easy for you to look in on the situation and claim "he shouldn't have...". But you weren't in his shoes, with his training. You don't really know what he should or shouldn't have done for whatever his situation was at that time.
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    Re: Attorney: New audio reveals pause in gunfire when Michael Brown was shot

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    Which is something that should be addressed, but it depends on how much of loss of vision it may have been, if any. Judgment call at the moment. Its easy for you to look in on the situation and claim "he shouldn't have...". But you weren't in his shoes, with his training. You don't really know what he should or shouldn't have done for whatever his situation was at that time.
    Evidence that he had ANY vision loss?

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    Re: Attorney: New audio reveals pause in gunfire when Michael Brown was shot[W:72,732

    No it's fine, keep playing the what if game to fit possible narratives that justify shooting an unarmed young black man to death in the middle of the street in broad daylight. Question any and all evidence that is indicating that he wasn't justified, and counter with the argument that there could be evidence that says the opposite.

    Discount black people's testimony as unreliable, regardless of how many are saying the same thing. Use a guy in the background of a video that cannot with any certainty be concluded to directly contradict the existing eyewitnesses and in fact can barely even be heard, and call it "new evidence that changes everything."

    Ignore the fact that Wilson's version does not include shots being fired while Brown is running away, despite all known eyewitness testimony saying that shots were fired at his back, the NY Times reporting that law enforcement officials have confirmed this, and now a verified audio recording of the gun shots which is consistent with the eyewitness accounts. Continue under the assumption that the rest of Wilson's version is the most likely truth. Continue to give him the benefit of the doubt, and continue to ignore the dead man lying in the street.
    Last edited by JC_CT; 08-30-14 at 05:14 PM.

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    Re: Attorney: New audio reveals pause in gunfire when Michael Brown was shot

    Quote Originally Posted by JC_CT View Post
    Evidence that he had ANY vision loss?
    I don't have any. That is the point though. We don't know what happened. Even with the witness accounts, we don't really know. They are conflicting.
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    Re: Attorney: New audio reveals pause in gunfire when Michael Brown was shot[W:72,732

    Quote Originally Posted by JC_CT View Post
    No it's fine, keep playing the what if game to fit possible narratives that justify shooting an unarmed young black man to death in the middle of the street in broad daylight. Question any and all evidence that is indicating that he wasn't justified, and counter with the argument that there could be evidence that says the opposite.

    Discount black people's testimony as unreliable, regardless of how many are saying the same thing. Use a guy in the background of a video that cannot with any certainty be concluded to directly contradict the existing eyewitnesses and in fact can barely even be heard, and call it "new evidence that changes everything."

    Ignore the fact that Wilson's version does not include shots being fired while Brown is running away, despite all known eyewitness testimony saying that shots were fired at his back, the NY Times reporting that law enforcement officials have confirmed this, and now a verified audio recording of the gun shots which is consistent with the eyewitness accounts. Continue under the assumption that the rest of Wilson's version is the most likely truth. Continue to give him the benefit of the doubt, and continue to ignore the dead man lying in the street.
    All witness testimony is unreliable. It is a psychological fact. People remember things differently. It doesn't matter who they are, what color skin they have.

    But even if it was an unjustifiable shooting, which I have not said is not possible or even not likely, it doesn't prove that he was shot for racial reasons. The police officer could simply be bad at judgment calls. That doesn't clear him of anything. But you need to prove racial reasons caused the shooting if that is what you are claiming and there is absolutely no evidence at all that he was shot and killed because he was black, whether the shooting itself was justified or not. That is the major issue I have a problem with.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

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    Re: Attorney: New audio reveals pause in gunfire when Michael Brown was shot[W:72,732

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    All witness testimony is unreliable. It is a psychological fact. People remember things differently. It doesn't matter who they are, what color skin they have.

    But even if it was an unjustifiable shooting, which I have not said is not possible or even not likely, it doesn't prove that he was shot for racial reasons. The police officer could simply be bad at judgment calls. That doesn't clear him of anything. But you need to prove racial reasons caused the shooting if that is what you are claiming and there is absolutely no evidence at all that he was shot and killed because he was black, whether the shooting itself was justified or not. That is the major issue I have a problem with.
    The evidence for the racial CONTEXT is in the CONTEXT. I don't need to, nor am I trying, to prove it is solely a racially motivated killing. The department (which has reeked of it), the region, and the entire freaking country has a VERY long history of racism, and at no point did it just stop. So the fact that this guy was part of a statistical fact of racial bias in policing activity in Ferguson, and the fact that he shot at this man, who was unarmed, 10 or 11 times, and didn't make any attempt to provide him with medical attention such as CPR, indicates that there likely was some level of racial bias that played some role.

    I do not doubt that race has played a much bigger role in the way that it is being reported in the media, than in the actual shooting. I also do not question the assertions that the militarization of our law enforcement is out of control.

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    Re: Attorney: New audio reveals pause in gunfire when Michael Brown was shot[W:72,732

    Quote Originally Posted by JC_CT View Post
    The evidence for the racial CONTEXT is in the CONTEXT. I don't need to, nor am I trying, to prove it is solely a racially motivated killing. The department (which has reeked of it), the region, and the entire freaking country has a VERY long history of racism, and at no point did it just stop. So the fact that this guy was part of a statistical fact of racial bias in policing activity in Ferguson, and the fact that he shot at this man, who was unarmed, 10 or 11 times, and didn't make any attempt to provide him with medical attention such as CPR, indicates that there likely was some level of racial bias that played some role.

    I do not doubt that race has played a much bigger role in the way that it is being reported in the media, than in the actual shooting. I also do not question the assertions that the militarization of our law enforcement is out of control.
    And you are applying a wrong way of thinking. In fact, you are basically stereotyping. YOU are applying motivation to someone based on a group they belong to. Isn't that the entire point of being against racial profiling, not basin an opinion of someone on what others of that group do or have done?

    If you know that you shot someone in the top of their head, there is a good chance they are dead. It is cruel to expect someone to perform CPR on a dead person.

    You are making assumptions and showing your personal bias in this last line.
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    Re: Attorney: New audio reveals pause in gunfire when Michael Brown was shot[W:72,732

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    And you are applying a wrong way of thinking. In fact, you are basically stereotyping. YOU are applying motivation to someone based on a group they belong to. Isn't that the entire point of being against racial profiling, not basin an opinion of someone on what others of that group do or have done?

    If you know that you shot someone in the top of their head, there is a good chance they are dead. It is cruel to expect someone to perform CPR on a dead person.

    You are making assumptions and showing your personal bias in this last line.
    Oh poor police officer. He shoots somebody in the head and then has to touch the potentially dead body. Ewww.

    Even though people have survived gun shot wounds to the head, I'm sure he knew that Brown was dead. I'm sure he at least took a pulse...right?

    ^Biased!

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    Re: Attorney: New audio reveals pause in gunfire when Michael Brown was shot[W:72,732

    Quote Originally Posted by JC_CT View Post
    Oh poor police officer. He shoots somebody in the head and then has to touch the potentially dead body. Ewww.

    Even though people have survived gun shot wounds to the head, I'm sure he knew that Brown was dead. I'm sure he at least took a pulse...right?

    ^Biased!
    They have. But you can pretty much tell someone who might survive and someone who is dead, as the coroner already said the head shot was a fatal shot. He wasn't surviving that. Was it right to not still give help? Yet another question for the investigators and definitely a matter of opinion, considering the facts of how the guy ended up dead.

    Pretty sure he doesn't have to administer CPR to Brown. I would hope that he did check for a pulse, but then he could have been traumatized. Despite popular belief, shooting and killing someone is not something a cop does cheerfully or without emotion, not most cops anyway.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

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