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Darren Wilson’s first job was on a troubled police force disbanded by authorities

He knew he could have gotten charged with more than simple theft though. It would have been robbery and assault at least. He possibly faced robbery in the 2nd degree, which is a Class B felony, and at least assault in the 3rd degree, which is a misdemeanor. He couldn't really know what anyone told the cops. At the very least, assuming he actually did pay for the cigars, he had to know that pushing the clerk could be assault. But since his friend said that they had robbed the store, then he faced the higher charge as well, and knew it was a possibility. Was he likely to keep a scholarship if he was charged with a felony level robbery? Doubtful. He also likely knew such a charge could lose him the scholarship and/or admission to college. To some people, that is worth charging an armed officer. Not everyone thinks rationally, especially in situations like this one.
Assuming that he's even guilty (I guess innocent until proven guilty only applies to cops, huh?), how do you know what he "knew" about what he could have been charged with or that he was even thinking about how stealing could have affected his scholarship or admission in college? How do you know he wasn't as clueless and careless as all the little white teenagers who steal crap from convenience stores who don't think about the consequences of their actions?

You don't. You're speculating a bunch of crap and projecting onto Brown and then you have the gall to criticize others for doing the same to Wilson. Hilarious.
 
Tell this to the family of a victim of a cop who used too little discretion and died for another person's "mistake."

Well, the cop faces their moment of decision over, and over, day after day, year after year. Mistakes are made, and it's tragic, especially when the mistake involves an truly innocent person. If not so innocent, who had control over the confrontation, the cop who responded, or the person who created the reason for it?
 
Unless you can prove that not only was Officer Wilson involved in the excessive force complaints or even the racial tensions of that other department, but that he is also part of some "abusive culture" that you believe is "permeating" Ferguson, which isn't looking very promising considering the information we have now about Wilson, then it isn't relevant. People should not be considered guilty by association whether they are civilians or police.

The independent autopsy concluded that excessive force was used in this case so, yeah, it is definitely relevant. As to Ferguson, there are news reports about previous actions by that department already and you have their response to the unrest to consider as well.

He knew he could have gotten charged with more than simple theft though. It would have been robbery and assault at least. He possibly faced robbery in the 2nd degree, which is a Class B felony, and at least assault in the 3rd degree, which is a misdemeanor. He couldn't really know what anyone told the cops. At the very least, assuming he actually did pay for the cigars, he had to know that pushing the clerk could be assault. But since his friend said that they had robbed the store, then he faced the higher charge as well, and knew it was a possibility. Was he likely to keep a scholarship if he was charged with a felony level robbery? Doubtful. He also likely knew such a charge could lose him the scholarship and/or admission to college. To some people, that is worth charging an armed officer. Not everyone thinks rationally, especially in situations like this one.

Where did his friend say they robbed the store? They dropped charges against Johnson because they say he did not rob anyone and there is no indication from the owner that anything was stolen by either of them. As to "assault" the owner laid hands on Brown and said something to him then Brown shoved the guy. We have no idea what exactly transpired there so it is possible that "assault" was not in the cards either.
 
Well, the cop faces their moment of decision over, and over, day after day, year after year. Mistakes are made, and it's tragic, especially when the mistake involves an truly innocent person. If not so innocent, who had control over the confrontation, the cop who responded, or the person who created the reason for it?
Complacent comments like "mistakes are made" and "it's tragic" are only made by people who have the luxury of not being a likely target. As far as I'm concerned, that disqualifies a person from having worthwhile input on the subject,
 
Complacent comments like "mistakes are made" and "it's tragic" are only made by people who have the luxury of not being a likely target. As far as I'm concerned, that disqualifies a person from having worthwhile input on the subject,

LOL

Now that's an awesome test you have there. I imagine it must limit your opinions on most things, since it's highly unlikely you've personally experienced all the things you comment on.

Yet, it seems that hasn't stopped you. I guess like your dismissing of culpability, it's just another exception to fit your rules for everyone but you.
 
Assuming that he's even guilty (I guess innocent until proven guilty only applies to cops, huh?), how do you know what he "knew" about what he could have been charged with or that he was even thinking about how stealing could have affected his scholarship or admission in college? How do you know he wasn't as clueless and careless as all the little white teenagers who steal crap from convenience stores who don't think about the consequences of their actions?

You don't. You're speculating a bunch of crap and projecting onto Brown and then you have the gall to criticize others for doing the same to Wilson. Hilarious.

The cop can only respond to the information he/she has. Brown was a suspect. There is absolutely no doubt he assaulted someone. That means that Brown knew he could get charged with assault. His friend says they robbed the store. His friend could be lying for whatever reason, but he still claims that they did steal the cigars. This means that, going off of that information, Brown was certainly thinking that he could face more charges there. Then, if he actually did reach for the gun and/or assault the police officer, that is more charges. These things all would have happened prior to the charge.

There are some facts that we do know. Not all. And yes, some of what I put out was assumptions. But the question was asked why someone would charge an armed cop who was obviously more than willing to shoot you, and I answered based on assumptions that are very likely to be at least somewhat true for this case as reasons why someone might charge at a cop who is already pointing his/her gun at them.

I never said anything about Brown should be automatically assumed guilty by anyone. But Brown wasn't shot for robbing the store or assaulting the clerk (almost certainly). We don't really know why he was shot at this moment, but there are legal reasons for why he could have been shot due to the confrontation he had with the police officer. Most of the assumptions are coming from those protesting his shooting though since there is absolutely no evidence that he was shot because he was black or even that he was a black suspect in a crime from earlier.
 
The independent autopsy concluded that excessive force was used in this case so, yeah, it is definitely relevant. As to Ferguson, there are news reports about previous actions by that department already and you have their response to the unrest to consider as well.

Where did his friend say they robbed the store? They dropped charges against Johnson because they say he did not rob anyone and there is no indication from the owner that anything was stolen by either of them. As to "assault" the owner laid hands on Brown and said something to him then Brown shoved the guy. We have no idea what exactly transpired there so it is possible that "assault" was not in the cards either.

An autopsy can't really prove excessive force from merely number of bullets, not the autopsy here anyway.

As for Ferguson, the information we have says that Officer Wilson, because he is the one that matters in this case, has had no complaints against him. There is no evidence that he personally has had any negative relations with any particular group in the community at all. You need evidence that Wilson has had problems with black people in the community or racial relations, not other officers. Otherwise, you are trying to place blame based on "guilt by association".

The video shows that he could get charged with assault. That push was assault. It can easily be charged as such. And it would be hard to believe that anyone would think it wasn't possible for them to get charged with at least assault from that incident.

Attorney: Dorian Johnson confirms he was with Brown at store robbery

The friend who was with Michael Brown when he was shot and killed by a police officer near St. Louis over the weekend is reportedly confirming that he and Brown had taken part in the theft of cigars from a convenience store that day.

The owner may not have pressed charges, but likely it was from fear if the friend is even saying they did take the cigars. Honestly, who knows why the owner didn't press charges. But not pressing charges doesn't mean it didn't happen.
 
He knew he could have gotten charged with more than simple theft though. It would have been robbery and assault at least. He possibly faced robbery in the 2nd degree, which is a Class B felony, and at least assault in the 3rd degree, which is a misdemeanor. He couldn't really know what anyone told the cops. At the very least, assuming he actually did pay for the cigars, he had to know that pushing the clerk could be assault. But since his friend said that they had robbed the store, then he faced the higher charge as well, and knew it was a possibility. Was he likely to keep a scholarship if he was charged with a felony level robbery? Doubtful. He also likely knew such a charge could lose him the scholarship and/or admission to college. To some people, that is worth charging an armed officer. Not everyone thinks rationally, especially in situations like this one.


Does that include police officers or are they somehow above normal human behavior
 
Does that include police officers or are they somehow above normal human behavior

Absolutely it includes police officers.

But it doesn't mean you automatically condemn the police officer's actions as irrational just because you don't think they are right, especially without all the evidence and information of the situation, which has been done in the Ferguson case.
 
Absolutely it includes police officers.

But it doesn't mean you automatically condemn the police officer's actions as irrational just because you don't think they are right, especially without all the evidence and information of the situation, which has been done in the Ferguson case.

That I can agree with and for the record I don't condemn the officer. I'm more concerned about the uninformed leaps to judgement made against MB. They both deserve the same considerations and objectivity.
 
Can we all agree to ignore this kind of crap?

You've been on this forum longer than I have. You should know that most people here aren't willing to be rational in their thought process.
 
You've been on this forum longer than I have. You should know that most people here aren't willing to be rational in their thought process.

Call me an optimist?
 
That I can agree with and for the record I don't condemn the officer. I'm more concerned about the uninformed leaps to judgement made against MB. They both deserve the same considerations and objectivity.

There are many leaps to judgment taking place. But the ones that have caused the most problems have been against the police, not Brown. Whether he was guilty or not of the robbery or assault from earlier, we can be pretty sure he hit the officer in the face. The only person saying that he didn't hit Wilson is the friend. Even other witnesses say that they thought he hit the police officer. We don't know if Officer Wilson actually knew about the robbery or not before the shooting (although it is likely that he either a) realized that the two fit the description he had of robbery suspects after he drove that little ways up the road and it is why he backed up to confront them again or b) he had just got the call for the robbery/assault as he drove forward that little bit). That has more affect on why he may have been considered dangerous by the officer, particularly if he was really coming toward him after he had already been shot. Do we know that this is what happened? No, we don't. But we do know that there is at least one witness saying that Brown continued to move toward Wilson after his hands came down. We know he wasn't shot in the back (although I'll say it could be that one of the shots from behind might have hit him in the arm). We know, so far, that there is no evidence that Officer Wilson was racist or that there was any racial motivation in why he shot Brown, even if it was a wrongful shooting.

Shooting of Michael Brown - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

There are definitely some things we don't know and may never know about this case, but there are other things we can be pretty sure about. The protests started prior to anyone releasing information about Brown and him specifically being a suspect in a robbery. The first acts of violence in response to this incident came August 10th, while the video was released August 15th. In fact, they, the police/officials tried to not say anything about Brown's character beyond "he has no criminal background" prior to the release of the tape on the 15th, yet people were calling for the officer's blood without any other facts except he shot an unarmed teen. No one knew why. No one had any information and yet some decided that it had to be uncalled for without it and didn't even wait for an investigation into it. They automatically started protesting, some of which got violent that first day.

Timeline: Michael Brown shooting in Ferguson, Mo.
 
Call me an optimist?

Perhaps. I think it more reasonable to realize that the majority of people commenting don't actually care about what happened between Wilson and Brown, but about either A or B.

A) Police brutality, racism, Zimmerman, Dunn, guns, etc.

B) Robbers, thugs, anti-cop mentality, law and order, self-defense, etc.
 
..............

There are many leaps to judgment taking place. But the ones that have caused the most problems have been against the police, not Brown.
I disagree. I think any judgement about "which have caused the most problems" depends entirely on your perspective.

The only person saying that he didn't hit Wilson is the friend. Even other witnesses say that they thought he hit the police officer. We don't know if Officer Wilson actually knew about the robbery or not before the shooting (although it is likely that he either a) realized that the two fit the description he had of robbery suspects after he drove that little ways up the road and it is why he backed up to confront them again or b) he had just got the call for the robbery/assault as he drove forward that little bit). That has more affect on why he may have been considered dangerous by the officer, particularly if he was really coming toward him after he had already been shot. Do we know that this is what happened? No, we don't. But we do know that there is at least one witness saying that Brown continued to move toward Wilson after his hands came down. We know he wasn't shot in the back (although I'll say it could be that one of the shots from behind might have hit him in the arm). We know, so far, that there is no evidence that Officer Wilson was racist or that there was any racial motivation in why he shot Brown, even if it was a wrongful shooting.
I see alot of speculation in this and straying from the facts.


There are definitely some things we don't know and may never know about this case, but there are other things we can be pretty sure about. The protests started prior to anyone releasing information about Brown and him specifically being a suspect in a robbery. The first acts of violence in response to this incident came August 10th, while the video was released August 15th. In fact, they, the police/officials tried to not say anything about Brown's character beyond "he has no criminal background" prior to the release of the tape on the 15th, yet people were calling for the officer's blood without any other facts except he shot an unarmed teen. No one knew why. No one had any information and yet some decided that it had to be uncalled for without it and didn't even wait for an investigation into it. They automatically started protesting, some of which got violent that first day.

So there are also different ways to interpret the protests. Right? You can choose to see them as unfounded and nothing more than an example of their inherently uncivil behavior...you can see them as being lead by the nose by race-baiters like Sharpton......you can see them as a community of people sick and tired of being singled out for harassment by their local police force not to mention the entire judicial system....etc. Name your poison.

Either way, there IS indeed a problem here that needs to be heard and I mean heard and not dismissed any more. I tend to believe that if an entire community is this outraged they are this outraged for a reason.
 
Perhaps. I think it more reasonable to realize that the majority of people commenting don't actually care about what happened between Wilson and Brown, but about either A or B.

A) Police brutality, racism, Zimmerman, Dunn, guns, etc.

B) Robbers, thugs, anti-cop mentality, law and order, self-defense, etc.

If someone actually cares at all about those issues instead of getting off to the sound of their own voice than they approach the situation objectively and understand that both sides have some legitimate complaint. This simpleton that some exhibit where they want to label someone the bad guy and someone the good guy is a dangerous oversimplification.
 
The small city of Jennings, Mo., had a police department so troubled, and with so much tension between white officers and black residents, that the city council finally decided to disband it. Everyone in the Jennings police department was fired. New officers were brought in to create a credible department from scratch.
(Racial tension was endemic in Jennings, said Rodney Epps, an African American city council member.
Police faced a series of lawsuits for using unnecessary force
“There was a disconnect between the community and the police department. There were just too many instances of police tactics which put the credibility of the police department in jeopardy. Complaints against officers.)

Wilson got a job in the police department in the nearby city of Ferguson.

People who know him describe him as someone who grew up in a home marked by multiple divorces and tangles with the law. His mother died when he was in high school. ( I read in a different article that she was a con-woman who killed herself) A friend said a career in law enforcement offered him structure in what had been a chaotic life.

Wilson has had some recent personal turmoil: Last year, he petitioned the court seeking a divorce from his wife, Ashley Nicole Wilson, and they formally split in November, records show

when Wilson was a freshman in high school, his mother pleaded guilty to forgery and stealing. She was sentenced to five years in prison, although records suggest the court agreed to let her serve her sentence on probation.

Darren Wilson

So why wasn't this story released like the story was suppose to be so incriminating and telling about MBs "character"? What does this tell you about officer Wilson?

Frankly, I'm just as appalled by the release of this kind of information about this officer as I am by the blatant attempts at manipulating the narrative by the release of personal information about MB. Can we all agree to ignore this kind of crap?


so his mother is a criminal

so all family members of all criminals are now GUILTY by association? from someone on the "progressive" side of the scale, you might want to rethink that position.

and him and his wife were separated, and getting a divorce.....happens to approximately 50% of all married people....didnt happen the week before (in that case, maybe i could see your point) but seven months previous

you truly believe these items are the same as the 18 yr old black man, who in a video "appears" to be strongarming a shopkeeper? and this is minutes before an altercation with the police?

maybe you are stretching things just a wee bit too much there......

i dont see any connection or correlation between the two
 
so his mother is a criminal

so all family members of all criminals are now GUILTY by association? from someone on the "progressive" side of the scale, you might want to rethink that position.

and him and his wife were separated, and getting a divorce.....happens to approximately 50% of all married people....didnt happen the week before (in that case, maybe i could see your point) but seven months previous

you truly believe these items are the same as the 18 yr old black man, who in a video "appears" to be strongarming a shopkeeper? and this is minutes before an altercation with the police?

maybe you are stretching things just a wee bit too much there......

i dont see any connection or correlation between the two

good grief
 
While he did push the clerk, the surveillance camera clearly shows his companion holding the box of swishers while Brown was only holding a couple of packs. Not that it matters but it keeps bugging me that it reports he stole the box, when it clearly shows he had the packs not the box.
He reached over the counter ... he gave the other guy something ... he shoved the clerk ... then took a step toward the clerk that said "you want a piece of me?" and the clerk cowered away.
No matter how you cut it, the video does not look like slam-dunk material for a boffo resume.
 
I disagree. I think any judgement about "which have caused the most problems" depends entirely on your perspective.

I see alot of speculation in this and straying from the facts.

So there are also different ways to interpret the protests. Right? You can choose to see them as unfounded and nothing more than an example of their inherently uncivil behavior...you can see them as being lead by the nose by race-baiters like Sharpton......you can see them as a community of people sick and tired of being singled out for harassment by their local police force not to mention the entire judicial system....etc. Name your poison.

Either way, there IS indeed a problem here that needs to be heard and I mean heard and not dismissed any more. I tend to believe that if an entire community is this outraged they are this outraged for a reason.

There is no reason for the protests, particularly without a good deal of information about the actual situation when they first started. The community was outraged as a knee jerk reaction rather than actually being patient and waiting for the facts to see if there was really something to be outraged about. There very well might be, but no one knows that even now, yet protests have already happened.
 
good grief
556425-2T.jpg
 
There is no reason for the protests, particularly without a good deal of information about the actual situation when they first started. The community was outraged as a knee jerk reaction rather than actually being patient and waiting for the facts to see if there was really something to be outraged about. There very well might be, but no one knows that even now, yet protests have already happened.

The protests are about something much larger than this single incident
 
The protests are about something much larger than this single incident

I didn't hear them complaining about all the jobs the Obama Administration is encouraging illegal aliens take from them, so you must be mistaken.
 
If someone actually cares at all about those issues instead of getting off to the sound of their own voice than they approach the situation objectively and understand that both sides have some legitimate complaint.

That's what I was referring to.

This simpleton that some exhibit where they want to label someone the bad guy and someone the good guy is a dangerous oversimplification.

I agree.
 
An autopsy can't really prove excessive force from merely number of bullets, not the autopsy here anyway.

As for Ferguson, the information we have says that Officer Wilson, because he is the one that matters in this case, has had no complaints against him. There is no evidence that he personally has had any negative relations with any particular group in the community at all. You need evidence that Wilson has had problems with black people in the community or racial relations, not other officers. Otherwise, you are trying to place blame based on "guilt by association".

You seem quick to insist that maybe a non-black store owner does not press charges out of fear, yet exclude the possibility that black victims of police misconduct would be just as, if not more, afraid of filing complaints. I believe it is safe to say that for any department where there is a significant number of complaints about use of force, there are a significant number of people who stay quiet because they are afraid of the cops or feel that they will be up against the blue wall. To me a lack of complaints is not very meaningful in this scenario. You call it "guilt by association" to mention the reputation of the police departments in question, but these are not large monolithic entities. We are talking about a few dozen police. That is a small tight-knit group and the odds of him not being a party to police misconduct or an active participant are pretty low. When you have cops as bad as these folks, flying under the radar could just mean he is not as horrifically abusive as his squad-mates.

The video shows that he could get charged with assault. That push was assault. It can easily be charged as such. And it would be hard to believe that anyone would think it wasn't possible for them to get charged with at least assault from that incident.

Sure, I mean, police will charge someone with assaulting an officer for poking them, so you could probably make a claim that it was assault. Of course, if Brown did pay for the cigarillos, this guy got in front of him to block him from leaving for no good reason, and Brown just shoved him out of the way then I think it would be hard to make a case out of that. For all we know the store owner said something terribly insensitive to Brown.

Attorney: Dorian Johnson confirms he was with Brown at store robbery



The owner may not have pressed charges, but likely it was from fear if the friend is even saying they did take the cigars. Honestly, who knows why the owner didn't press charges. But not pressing charges doesn't mean it didn't happen.

I figured you would post one of those reports, but they are really just spinning what the attorney said. His exact words were that Johnson was there and that some cigarillos were "taken" by Brown specifically avoiding any words that mean theft. The issue with the charges is that charges were dropped by police investigating the claim on the basis that Johnson committed no robbery. Of course, interestingly enough, it seems the police claimed an employee reported a robbery, but the store owner's attorney says it was a customer.
 
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