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Thread: Darren Wilsonís first job was on a troubled police force disbanded by authorities

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    Re: Darren Wilsonís first job was on a troubled police force disbanded by authorities

    Quote Originally Posted by opendebate View Post
    good grief

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    Re: Darren Wilsonís first job was on a troubled police force disbanded by authorities

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    There is no reason for the protests, particularly without a good deal of information about the actual situation when they first started. The community was outraged as a knee jerk reaction rather than actually being patient and waiting for the facts to see if there was really something to be outraged about. There very well might be, but no one knows that even now, yet protests have already happened.
    The protests are about something much larger than this single incident
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    Re: Darren Wilsonís first job was on a troubled police force disbanded by authorities

    Quote Originally Posted by opendebate View Post
    The protests are about something much larger than this single incident
    I didn't hear them complaining about all the jobs the Obama Administration is encouraging illegal aliens take from them, so you must be mistaken.

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    Re: Darren Wilsonís first job was on a troubled police force disbanded by authorities

    Quote Originally Posted by opendebate View Post
    If someone actually cares at all about those issues instead of getting off to the sound of their own voice than they approach the situation objectively and understand that both sides have some legitimate complaint.
    That's what I was referring to.

    Quote Originally Posted by opendebate View Post
    This simpleton that some exhibit where they want to label someone the bad guy and someone the good guy is a dangerous oversimplification.
    I agree.

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    Re: Darren Wilsonís first job was on a troubled police force disbanded by authorities

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    An autopsy can't really prove excessive force from merely number of bullets, not the autopsy here anyway.

    As for Ferguson, the information we have says that Officer Wilson, because he is the one that matters in this case, has had no complaints against him. There is no evidence that he personally has had any negative relations with any particular group in the community at all. You need evidence that Wilson has had problems with black people in the community or racial relations, not other officers. Otherwise, you are trying to place blame based on "guilt by association".
    You seem quick to insist that maybe a non-black store owner does not press charges out of fear, yet exclude the possibility that black victims of police misconduct would be just as, if not more, afraid of filing complaints. I believe it is safe to say that for any department where there is a significant number of complaints about use of force, there are a significant number of people who stay quiet because they are afraid of the cops or feel that they will be up against the blue wall. To me a lack of complaints is not very meaningful in this scenario. You call it "guilt by association" to mention the reputation of the police departments in question, but these are not large monolithic entities. We are talking about a few dozen police. That is a small tight-knit group and the odds of him not being a party to police misconduct or an active participant are pretty low. When you have cops as bad as these folks, flying under the radar could just mean he is not as horrifically abusive as his squad-mates.

    The video shows that he could get charged with assault. That push was assault. It can easily be charged as such. And it would be hard to believe that anyone would think it wasn't possible for them to get charged with at least assault from that incident.
    Sure, I mean, police will charge someone with assaulting an officer for poking them, so you could probably make a claim that it was assault. Of course, if Brown did pay for the cigarillos, this guy got in front of him to block him from leaving for no good reason, and Brown just shoved him out of the way then I think it would be hard to make a case out of that. For all we know the store owner said something terribly insensitive to Brown.

    Attorney: Dorian Johnson confirms he was with Brown at store robbery



    The owner may not have pressed charges, but likely it was from fear if the friend is even saying they did take the cigars. Honestly, who knows why the owner didn't press charges. But not pressing charges doesn't mean it didn't happen.
    I figured you would post one of those reports, but they are really just spinning what the attorney said. His exact words were that Johnson was there and that some cigarillos were "taken" by Brown specifically avoiding any words that mean theft. The issue with the charges is that charges were dropped by police investigating the claim on the basis that Johnson committed no robbery. Of course, interestingly enough, it seems the police claimed an employee reported a robbery, but the store owner's attorney says it was a customer.
    Last edited by Demon of Light; 08-27-14 at 05:27 PM.
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    Re: Darren Wilsonís first job was on a troubled police force disbanded by authorities

    Quote Originally Posted by opendebate View Post
    The protests are about something much larger than this single incident
    They are about people's perception of what they believe to be much larger than a single incident. In reality, it is a single incident being used as cannon fodder, possibly destroying lives based on very little information.

    Even if Officer Wilson is acquitted or not even charged, he and his family will almost certainly have to leave the area. They are going to be targeted no matter what the outcome because of some people who don't want to wait to get information, to actually see what is going on, but rather have a knee-jerk reaction to certain events and automatically get defensive. Heck, the very first day, the officer was receiving death threats, had random people on the internet saying he should be shot down or killed or executed with only "shot an unarmed teenager" to go off of. "Unarmed" does not mean "not a danger". It simply means they do not have a weapon.

    Now, I realize the following is an opinion piece, but this is pretty much my feelings on this:

    Unarmed Man, Six Shots | National Review Online

    The outrage is simply not warranted at this time. Might it be warranted in the future if evidence comes to light that the officer was wrong? Yes, particularly if the police were trying to cover something up. However, no one was given any chance to cover anything up. You do not arrest and/or charge an officer with "murder" immediately after they shoot someone. Not without some damn good evidence that they did something wrong. You have to get the information about the incident first. That wasn't even allowed to happen. They are still getting the information even now, and won't likely have it all still for awhile.
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    Re: Darren Wilsonís first job was on a troubled police force disbanded by authorities

    Quote Originally Posted by Demon of Light View Post
    You seem quick to insist that maybe a non-black store owner does not press charges out of fear, yet exclude the possibility that black victims of police misconduct would be just as, if not more, afraid of filing complaints. I believe it is safe to say that for any department where there is a significant number of complaints about use of force, there are a significant number of people who stay quiet because they are afraid of the cops or feel that they will be up against the blue wall. To me a lack of complaints is not very meaningful in this scenario. You call it "guilt by association" to mention the reputation of the police departments in question, but these are not large monolithic entities. We are talking about a few dozen police. That is a small tight-knit group and the odds of him not being a party to police misconduct or an active participant are pretty low. When you have cops as bad as these folks, flying under the radar could just mean he is not as horrifically abusive as his squad-mates.

    Sure, I mean, police will charge someone with an assaulting an officer for poking them, so you could probably make a claim that it was assault. Of course, if Brown did pay for the cigarillos, this guy got in front of him to block him from leaving for no good reason, and Brown just shoved him out of the way then I think it would hard to make a case out of that. For all we know the store owner said something terribly insensitive to Brown.

    I figured you would post one of those reports, but they are really just spinning what the attorney said. His exact words were that Johnson was there and that some cigarillos were "taken" by Brown specifically avoiding any words that mean theft. The issue with the charges is that charges were dropped by police investigating the claim on the basis that Johnson committed no robbery. Of course, interestingly enough, it seems the police claimed an employee reported a robbery, but the store owner's attorney says it was a customer.
    Are you saying that people would be all too scared to file a complaint about Officer Wilson specifically, but not too scared to file a complaint about other officers? Statistically, that is highly unlikely. Sure, the police could be covering something up. But there is no evidence of this so far.

    As for the clerk/manager, it is possible that he is denying it now because of the protests and the looting. The day after the shooting (or at least the night of that day after) there was looting, including destruction of a QuikTrip in the area. We didn't hear from the manager/clerk of the Market and Liquor store until after the video was released.

    Employee Safety Top Concern For QuikTrip Management After St. Lo - NewsOn6.com - Tulsa, OK - News, Weather, Video and Sports - KOTV.com |

    The owners of that store, or at least their lawyers, have even said that it was fear of being targeted. They don't want to look like they snitched on someone.

    Report: Convenience Store Manager Terrified of Being Murdered by Ferguson Customers | The Gateway Pundit

    It has nothing to do with the color of anyone's skin. There are white bullies out there who scare people into not telling on them. A bully is a bully, no matter the skin color. Is it possible that he didn't steal anything? Sure. The evidence we have though suggests strongly that Brown robbed that store, and his friend was there.

    Why would you say it would be "no good reason" even if he paid something for them? Perhaps he didn't give the guy enough money. Maybe he damaged something when he reached over the counter. We don't know what happened or why the clerk stopped Brown, but it was not a reason to push him into the display, to assault him. And someone called the police and reported it.

    Plus, why is it that you assume the police are lying? Maybe they are. But it could also be the owners or their lawyer lying in order to try to protect the store/owners/employees from reprisal.

    Johnson committing no robbery does not mean that Brown didn't. There was a robbery reported by someone. That is all that matters. And there was an assault.
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    Re: Darren Wilsonís first job was on a troubled police force disbanded by authorities

    Quote Originally Posted by opendebate View Post
    The protests are about something much larger than this single incident
    But as usual, they use the wrong incident to use in their cause, causing them to look like fools.

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    Re: Darren Wilsonís first job was on a troubled police force disbanded by authorities

    Quote Originally Posted by Caine View Post
    But as usual, they use the wrong incident to use in their cause, causing them to look like fools.
    "Use" is the key word here, and I do mean exploitation.

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    Re: Darren Wilsonís first job was on a troubled police force disbanded by authorities

    Quote Originally Posted by Demon of Light View Post
    The independent autopsy concluded that excessive force was used in this case so, yeah, it is definitely relevant.
    This is news to me. Links please.

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