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Thread: Darren Wilsonís first job was on a troubled police force disbanded by authorities

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    Re: Darren Wilsonís first job was on a troubled police force disbanded by authorities

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    He knew he could have gotten charged with more than simple theft though. It would have been robbery and assault at least. He possibly faced robbery in the 2nd degree, which is a Class B felony, and at least assault in the 3rd degree, which is a misdemeanor. He couldn't really know what anyone told the cops. At the very least, assuming he actually did pay for the cigars, he had to know that pushing the clerk could be assault. But since his friend said that they had robbed the store, then he faced the higher charge as well, and knew it was a possibility. Was he likely to keep a scholarship if he was charged with a felony level robbery? Doubtful. He also likely knew such a charge could lose him the scholarship and/or admission to college. To some people, that is worth charging an armed officer. Not everyone thinks rationally, especially in situations like this one.
    Assuming that he's even guilty (I guess innocent until proven guilty only applies to cops, huh?), how do you know what he "knew" about what he could have been charged with or that he was even thinking about how stealing could have affected his scholarship or admission in college? How do you know he wasn't as clueless and careless as all the little white teenagers who steal crap from convenience stores who don't think about the consequences of their actions?

    You don't. You're speculating a bunch of crap and projecting onto Brown and then you have the gall to criticize others for doing the same to Wilson. Hilarious.

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    Re: Darren Wilsonís first job was on a troubled police force disbanded by authorities

    Quote Originally Posted by ThePlayDrive View Post
    Tell this to the family of a victim of a cop who used too little discretion and died for another person's "mistake."
    Well, the cop faces their moment of decision over, and over, day after day, year after year. Mistakes are made, and it's tragic, especially when the mistake involves an truly innocent person. If not so innocent, who had control over the confrontation, the cop who responded, or the person who created the reason for it?

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    Re: Darren Wilsonís first job was on a troubled police force disbanded by authorities

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    Unless you can prove that not only was Officer Wilson involved in the excessive force complaints or even the racial tensions of that other department, but that he is also part of some "abusive culture" that you believe is "permeating" Ferguson, which isn't looking very promising considering the information we have now about Wilson, then it isn't relevant. People should not be considered guilty by association whether they are civilians or police.
    The independent autopsy concluded that excessive force was used in this case so, yeah, it is definitely relevant. As to Ferguson, there are news reports about previous actions by that department already and you have their response to the unrest to consider as well.

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    He knew he could have gotten charged with more than simple theft though. It would have been robbery and assault at least. He possibly faced robbery in the 2nd degree, which is a Class B felony, and at least assault in the 3rd degree, which is a misdemeanor. He couldn't really know what anyone told the cops. At the very least, assuming he actually did pay for the cigars, he had to know that pushing the clerk could be assault. But since his friend said that they had robbed the store, then he faced the higher charge as well, and knew it was a possibility. Was he likely to keep a scholarship if he was charged with a felony level robbery? Doubtful. He also likely knew such a charge could lose him the scholarship and/or admission to college. To some people, that is worth charging an armed officer. Not everyone thinks rationally, especially in situations like this one.
    Where did his friend say they robbed the store? They dropped charges against Johnson because they say he did not rob anyone and there is no indication from the owner that anything was stolen by either of them. As to "assault" the owner laid hands on Brown and said something to him then Brown shoved the guy. We have no idea what exactly transpired there so it is possible that "assault" was not in the cards either.
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    Re: Darren Wilsonís first job was on a troubled police force disbanded by authorities

    Quote Originally Posted by ocean515 View Post
    Well, the cop faces their moment of decision over, and over, day after day, year after year. Mistakes are made, and it's tragic, especially when the mistake involves an truly innocent person. If not so innocent, who had control over the confrontation, the cop who responded, or the person who created the reason for it?
    Complacent comments like "mistakes are made" and "it's tragic" are only made by people who have the luxury of not being a likely target. As far as I'm concerned, that disqualifies a person from having worthwhile input on the subject,

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    Re: Darren Wilsonís first job was on a troubled police force disbanded by authorities

    Quote Originally Posted by ThePlayDrive View Post
    Complacent comments like "mistakes are made" and "it's tragic" are only made by people who have the luxury of not being a likely target. As far as I'm concerned, that disqualifies a person from having worthwhile input on the subject,
    LOL

    Now that's an awesome test you have there. I imagine it must limit your opinions on most things, since it's highly unlikely you've personally experienced all the things you comment on.

    Yet, it seems that hasn't stopped you. I guess like your dismissing of culpability, it's just another exception to fit your rules for everyone but you.

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    Re: Darren Wilsonís first job was on a troubled police force disbanded by authorities

    Quote Originally Posted by ThePlayDrive View Post
    Assuming that he's even guilty (I guess innocent until proven guilty only applies to cops, huh?), how do you know what he "knew" about what he could have been charged with or that he was even thinking about how stealing could have affected his scholarship or admission in college? How do you know he wasn't as clueless and careless as all the little white teenagers who steal crap from convenience stores who don't think about the consequences of their actions?

    You don't. You're speculating a bunch of crap and projecting onto Brown and then you have the gall to criticize others for doing the same to Wilson. Hilarious.
    The cop can only respond to the information he/she has. Brown was a suspect. There is absolutely no doubt he assaulted someone. That means that Brown knew he could get charged with assault. His friend says they robbed the store. His friend could be lying for whatever reason, but he still claims that they did steal the cigars. This means that, going off of that information, Brown was certainly thinking that he could face more charges there. Then, if he actually did reach for the gun and/or assault the police officer, that is more charges. These things all would have happened prior to the charge.

    There are some facts that we do know. Not all. And yes, some of what I put out was assumptions. But the question was asked why someone would charge an armed cop who was obviously more than willing to shoot you, and I answered based on assumptions that are very likely to be at least somewhat true for this case as reasons why someone might charge at a cop who is already pointing his/her gun at them.

    I never said anything about Brown should be automatically assumed guilty by anyone. But Brown wasn't shot for robbing the store or assaulting the clerk (almost certainly). We don't really know why he was shot at this moment, but there are legal reasons for why he could have been shot due to the confrontation he had with the police officer. Most of the assumptions are coming from those protesting his shooting though since there is absolutely no evidence that he was shot because he was black or even that he was a black suspect in a crime from earlier.
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    Re: Darren Wilsonís first job was on a troubled police force disbanded by authorities

    Quote Originally Posted by Demon of Light View Post
    The independent autopsy concluded that excessive force was used in this case so, yeah, it is definitely relevant. As to Ferguson, there are news reports about previous actions by that department already and you have their response to the unrest to consider as well.

    Where did his friend say they robbed the store? They dropped charges against Johnson because they say he did not rob anyone and there is no indication from the owner that anything was stolen by either of them. As to "assault" the owner laid hands on Brown and said something to him then Brown shoved the guy. We have no idea what exactly transpired there so it is possible that "assault" was not in the cards either.
    An autopsy can't really prove excessive force from merely number of bullets, not the autopsy here anyway.

    As for Ferguson, the information we have says that Officer Wilson, because he is the one that matters in this case, has had no complaints against him. There is no evidence that he personally has had any negative relations with any particular group in the community at all. You need evidence that Wilson has had problems with black people in the community or racial relations, not other officers. Otherwise, you are trying to place blame based on "guilt by association".

    The video shows that he could get charged with assault. That push was assault. It can easily be charged as such. And it would be hard to believe that anyone would think it wasn't possible for them to get charged with at least assault from that incident.

    Attorney: Dorian Johnson confirms he was with Brown at store robbery

    The friend who was with Michael Brown when he was shot and killed by a police officer near St. Louis over the weekend is reportedly confirming that he and Brown had taken part in the theft of cigars from a convenience store that day.
    The owner may not have pressed charges, but likely it was from fear if the friend is even saying they did take the cigars. Honestly, who knows why the owner didn't press charges. But not pressing charges doesn't mean it didn't happen.
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    Re: Darren Wilsonís first job was on a troubled police force disbanded by authorities

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    He knew he could have gotten charged with more than simple theft though. It would have been robbery and assault at least. He possibly faced robbery in the 2nd degree, which is a Class B felony, and at least assault in the 3rd degree, which is a misdemeanor. He couldn't really know what anyone told the cops. At the very least, assuming he actually did pay for the cigars, he had to know that pushing the clerk could be assault. But since his friend said that they had robbed the store, then he faced the higher charge as well, and knew it was a possibility. Was he likely to keep a scholarship if he was charged with a felony level robbery? Doubtful. He also likely knew such a charge could lose him the scholarship and/or admission to college. To some people, that is worth charging an armed officer. Not everyone thinks rationally, especially in situations like this one.

    Does that include police officers or are they somehow above normal human behavior
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    Re: Darren Wilsonís first job was on a troubled police force disbanded by authorities

    Quote Originally Posted by opendebate View Post
    Does that include police officers or are they somehow above normal human behavior
    Absolutely it includes police officers.

    But it doesn't mean you automatically condemn the police officer's actions as irrational just because you don't think they are right, especially without all the evidence and information of the situation, which has been done in the Ferguson case.
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    Re: Darren Wilsonís first job was on a troubled police force disbanded by authorities

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    Absolutely it includes police officers.

    But it doesn't mean you automatically condemn the police officer's actions as irrational just because you don't think they are right, especially without all the evidence and information of the situation, which has been done in the Ferguson case.
    That I can agree with and for the record I don't condemn the officer. I'm more concerned about the uninformed leaps to judgement made against MB. They both deserve the same considerations and objectivity.
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