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Thread: ACLU: Ferguson police report on Michael brown's death violates law [W: 209:785]

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    Re: ACLU: Ferguson police report on Michael brown's death violates law [W: 209]

    Ok,

    Let try to reconstruct in a general sense what happened while giving Officer Wilson the most favorable spin possible:

    The encounter

    - Brown and his friend are sauntering down the middle of the street. Brown is pumped up and juiced up after having pulled off a strong arm robbery
    -Wilson, unaware of the strong arm robbery, gives Brown a legitimate order to get out of the middle of the street
    -Brown refuses to comply, Wilson returns to Brown

    The Attack
    -Brown then suddenly attacks Wilson in his car. He quickly overcomes any resistance from Wilson, reaches over Wilson and tries to get his pistol on his right side.
    -Wilson, in fear for his life, fires a shot at Brown.

    The Attack part II
    -Brown retreats a good distance. Then, he reverses course, and suddenly charges Wilson.
    - Wilson is unable to call for back up,a nd there is no time to yell a warning at Brown.
    -In fear for his life, Wilson resumes firing at Brown.
    -Brown ignores several bullet impacts fired from a large calibre service weapon, lowers his head and keeps charging Wilson until he is dropped.

    Given that Brown was not high on PCP, how likely is this?

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    Re: ACLU: Ferguson police report on Michael brown's death violates law [W: 209]

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    No, he can't...Nothing points to this particular police officer as being anything buy a well measured, controlled, and solid cop...One of the many good ones...Not even one complaint in 4 years in that force.
    Nothing in Wilson's professional life and nothing in his personal life gives any credence to Buck's accusation.

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    Re: ACLU: Ferguson police report on Michael brown's death violates law [W: 209]

    Quote Originally Posted by Cryptic View Post
    Ok,

    Let try to reconstruct in a general sense what happened while giving Officer Wilson the most favorable spin possible:

    The encounter

    - Brown and his friend are sauntering down the middle of the street. Brown is pumped up and juiced up after having pulled off a strong arm robbery
    -Wilson, unaware of the strong arm robbery, gives Brown a legitimate order to get out of the middle of the street
    -Brown refuses to comply, Wilson returns to Brown

    The Attack
    -Brown then suddenly attacks Wilson in his car. He quickly overcomes any resistance from Wilson, reaches over Wilson and tries to get his pistol on his right side.
    -Wilson, in fear for his life, fires a shot at Brown.

    The Attack part II
    -Brown retreats a good distance. Then, he reverses course, and suddenly charges Wilson.
    - Wilson is unable to call for back up,a nd there is no time to yell a warning at Brown.
    -In fear for his life, Wilson resumes firing at Brown.
    -Brown ignores several bullet impacts fired from a large calibre service weapon, lowers his head and keeps charging Wilson until he is dropped.

    Given that Brown was not high on PCP, how likely is this?
    -Large caliber being a 9mm? Do we even know the caliber at this point?

    But it doesn't matter.

    -If you shoot a suspect you shoot them until they are on the ground. You don't stop shooting and then resume.

    -it is more than possible to shrug off a few bullet wounds if one is sufficiently amped up on adrenaline. There are several documented cases of people being shot and unaware until seeing the actual wound.
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    Re: ACLU: Ferguson police report on Michael brown's death violates law [W: 209]

    Quote Originally Posted by stonewall50 View Post
    -Large caliber being a 9mm? Do we even know the caliber at this point?
    No, it was most likely a .40 Calibre weapon loaded with hollow point ammunition (most police departments no longer use 9mm)
    Quote Originally Posted by stonewall50 View Post
    -If you shoot a suspect you shoot them until they are on the ground. You don't stop shooting and then resume.
    Yet, that is evidently exaclty what Wilson did. Wilson fired one round in the car, very close range, and then fired several more when Brown was considerably further away.

    A police officer is trained to shoot until the target is no longer a deadly threat. This can mean "on the ground"- espescially when applied to an armed threat. Or, in the case of an unarmed man, it could mean (depending on a variety of circumstances) that they are no longer approaching the officer.

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    Re: ACLU: Ferguson police report on Michael brown's death violates law [W: 209]

    Quote Originally Posted by Cryptic View Post
    No, it was most likely a .40 Calibre weapon loaded with hollow point ammunition (most police departments no longer use 9mm)


    Yet, that is evidently exaclty what Wilson did. Wilson fired one round in the car, very close range, and then fired several more when Brown was considerably further away.

    A police officer is trained to shoot until the target is no longer a deadly threat. This can mean "on the ground"- espescially when applied to an armed threat. Or, in the case of an unarmed man, it could mean (depending on a variety of circumstances) that they are no longer approaching the officer.
    Agreed. And further, much is being made of the "grazing" wound on Brown's arm. That the determination by Brown supporters is that this concludes that he was fired at while running away. See, I don't buy that. I think that came from the discharge of the weapon in the car during the fight for the gun.
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    Re: ACLU: Ferguson police report on Michael brown's death violates law [W: 209]

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    No, he can't...Nothing points to this particular police officer as being anything buy a well measured, controlled, and solid cop...One of the many good ones...Not even one complaint in 4 years in that force.
    Yes, that is true. And other evidence (strong arm robbery, rap lyrics suggesting sexual dominance) indicate that Brown may not be the "gentle giant" of legend and lore.

    Even still, given the totality of circumstances, I would want some additional evidence, other than the officers word alone, that this shooting was truly necessarry.

    So far, the officer has injuries to his face in addition to his word. This does not truly show that the shooting was necessarry though.
    Last edited by Cryptic; 08-25-14 at 11:45 AM.

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    Re: ACLU: Ferguson police report on Michael brown's death violates law [W: 209]

    Quote Originally Posted by Lursa View Post
    What if....since there have been allegations that Brown went for Wilson's gun...Wilson already had his gun in his hand if/when Brown presented a threat?

    There...perfectly acceptable speculation. You have absolutely no idea how much time and space he had. I have yet to see info on how far Wilson was from Brown when he was shot and I find this to be critical information.

    Have you seen it? Maybe I missed it?
    Brown was 35 feet from the cruiser when he dropped and supposedly he had been charging back when the gunfire started according to the cops.
    For a 300 pound guy to run 40 or so feet it had to take at least 30 seconds...
    Plenty of time for Wilson to holster his piece and draw his Taser ... the appropriate weapon to stop an un-armed man running down a busy street at noon.

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    Re: ACLU: Ferguson police report on Michael brown's death violates law [W: 209]

    Quote Originally Posted by Cryptic View Post
    Yes, that is true. And other evidence (strong arm robbery, rap lyrics suggesting sexual dominance) indicates that Brown may not be the "gentle giant" of legend and lore.

    Even still, given the totality of circumstances, I would probably want some evidence, other than the officers word alone, that this shooting was necessarry.
    All of which we are NOT going to get until after a GJ renders their decision. Until then all we have are buffoonish theories, based on layered anonymous sourcing that in the end are completely made up by news outlets looking to have the next flash banner 'breaking news' speculation.
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    Re: ACLU: Ferguson police report on Michael brown's death violates law [W: 209]

    Quote Originally Posted by Anthony60 View Post
    You would need more information than we have now to know that. The kid went for the gun, I don't know how he could taser him and fight for the gun at the same time.
    Brown was 35 feet away from the cruiser when he dropped face down ... that much we do know. Wilson never lost control of his weapon. He could have easily had the time to draw his Taser while the kids ran that far away.

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    Re: ACLU: Ferguson police report on Michael brown's death violates law [W: 209]

    Quote Originally Posted by Buck Ewer View Post
    Brown was 35 feet away from the cruiser when he dropped face down ... that much we do know. Wilson never lost control of his weapon. He could have easily had the time to draw his Taser while the kids ran that far away.
    Show me that Wilson even had a taser.
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