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U.S. Weighs Direct Military Action Against ISIS in Syria

iguanaman said:
LOL We ended nothing. What about eastern Europe? Bosnia, and now Ukraine come to mind. Our forces simply substituted for other countries defense spending, sort of a lend lease without the strings.
There is no end to how much we spend to prop up the defense conglomerates. Wasted money for the most part.
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Eastern Europe fell under the influence of the other Super Power up until very recently. and their aims were decidedly different then ours.
 
GBFAN said:
Simple - you sound like a liberal talking machine, spewing out the popular diatribe regardless of what the truth might be. It was clear to me that reality is a stretch for you ... it's one thing to misrepresent reality, and know you're doing it ... it's a whole different thing to accept the lies of others at face value and being to intellectually lazy to investigate for the truth.
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This coming from the guy who says to bomb the entire country from border to border........ Don't expect to be taken seriously.
 
mac said:
That question is usually answered pretty quickly.
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Yes, but frequently the answer is not accurate or correct. That is, so many times the answer is contradicted by facts and evidence. :lol:
 
mac said:
They can't huh?
View attachment 67172038
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You are easily fooled, but so was I. Most of us were.

In my case, regarding the pictures you show, it took 4 years to realize I was tricked. 13 years later some folks have not yet realized they were fooled, and that is easily explained, because there has been a deliberate effort to reinforce in the public perception a Bright & Shining Lie.

For some it works, others not so much. :peace
 
Bumping up your thread TDS.
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Obama likely to hit ISIL in Syria without Congress’s formal OK.....

The White House has repeatedly trumpeted its “consultations” and “coordination” with lawmakers and its “notifications” to Congress about deployments against ISIL under the 1973 War Powers Act. That law, which presidents have never accepted as constitutional, was designed to limit the ability of the chief executive to send troops overseas absent a formal declaration of war. But top Obama aides have refused to commit to seeking congressional authorization as required by the law 60 days after American forces first enter into hostilities. Asked on Aug. 8 whether Obama would abide by that stricture, Earnest sidestepped the question.

“What we’re talking about now is confronting a terrorist group that has sought safe haven in Syria,” Earnest said. “This is a group that poses a threat to Americans in the region and could potentially down the line pose a broader threat to American interests and our allies around the globe.” In fact, the administration has laid the groundwork since the very early months of 2014 for unilateral action on the grounds that ISIL could eventually threaten America directly. In January and February, top intelligence officials compared Syria to Yemen and suggested ISIL had found safe haven in areas beyond Assad’s reach.....snip~

Obama likely to hit ISIL in Syria without Congress
 
Is this what presidents do now. If he gets away with it again, think the next president does the same? Does anybody understand what a dangerous precedent this is. Or are partisans going to continue to support this ****??
 
Grant said:
They are sinking unless they receive aid. And you think that will then teach them a lesson? What would be the point of having a powerful terrorist group take over Iraq with access to Iraqi oil, and other countries throughout the Middle East. America, with its coalition members, started the war in Iraq and should have seen it through until they could properly looked after themselves and the region had settled down. To do otherwise was foolish and immoral.

One good thing is that, without US even being informed, Egypt and the UAE are attacking Islamist strongholds in Libya. But these countries need help and other nations, in their own long term interest, should give it to them.
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There were no Islamist strongholds in Libya when Gaddafi was there. And Egypt and UAE didn't just do something without telling the US, they didn't tell Canada either.
 
Montecresto said:
There were no Islamist strongholds in Libya when Gaddafi was there. And Egypt and UAE didn't just do something without telling the US, they didn't tell Canada either.
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Yes they did just do something Monte..... and they didn't tell team Obama anything.


Egypt and UAE strike Islamist militias in Libya.....

The United Arab Emirates and Egypt have carried out a series of airstrikes in the Libyan capital, Tripoli, U.S. officials said Monday, marking an escalation in the chaotic war among Libya’s rival militias that has driven American and other diplomats from the country.

The Obama administration did not know ahead of time about the highly unusual military intervention, although the United States was aware that action by Arab states might come as the crisis in Libya worsened, said one official who spoke on the condition of anonymity because of the sensitivity of the matter.....snip~

Egypt and UAE strike Islamist militias in Libya - The Washington Post
 
MMC said:
Yes they did just do something Monte..... and they didn't tell team Obama anything.


Egypt and UAE strike Islamist militias in Libya.....

The United Arab Emirates and Egypt have carried out a series of airstrikes in the Libyan capital, Tripoli, U.S. officials said Monday, marking an escalation in the chaotic war among Libya’s rival militias that has driven American and other diplomats from the country.

The Obama administration did not know ahead of time about the highly unusual military intervention, although the United States was aware that action by Arab states might come as the crisis in Libya worsened, said one official who spoke on the condition of anonymity because of the sensitivity of the matter.....snip~

Egypt and UAE strike Islamist militias in Libya - The Washington Post
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You should read my post that you quoted again, I didn't claim that Egypt and UAE didn't do something without the US knowing, I pointed out that they didn't tell Canada either. Dangerous to respond to a post without reading it all!!
 
Grant said:
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-...r-source-mystery-libya-bombing-raids-revealed

It seems they didn't tell the US.

And in fact Libya was close to being 100% Islamic and Gadaffi wanted Islam to spread throughout Europe, and the world.
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Gaddafi made the peace with the US and was co-operating nicely. He didn't have radical Islamists causing the trouble that they are today, and his removal was a mistake. Get Harper involved if you want anything else done in the ME.
 
Montecresto said:
You should read my post that you quoted again, I didn't claim that Egypt and UAE didn't do something without the US knowing, I pointed out that they didn't tell Canada either. Dangerous to respond to a post without reading it all!!
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So Canada was included gratuitously?

Don't get so rattled. It's just a debate board.
 
Grant said:
So Canada was included gratuitously?

Don't get so rattled. It's just a debate board.
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Yes of course. But they probably didn't tell Germany either. Why don't you begin debating then?
I prefer that the US gets president Assad's permission first, and that our president has congressional approval. Your belligerent approach is more failure.
 
Montecresto said:
Gaddafi made the peace with the US and was co-operating nicely. He didn't have radical Islamists causing the trouble that they are today, and his removal was a mistake. Get Harper involved if you want anything else done in the ME.
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Again, Libya was almost entirely Muslim (meaning you don't know who was 'radical' and who wasn't) Gadaffi was promoting the takeover of Europe through Islam and felt that it was progressing nicely. If you want to discuss this then do some research first.

The Muslim Brotherhood and Gaddafi were partners not too long ago - Point de Bascule Canada
 
Montecresto said:
Is this what presidents do now. If he gets away with it again, think the next president does the same? Does anybody understand what a dangerous precedent this is. Or are partisans going to continue to support this ****??
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If the truth were ever revealed someday in the future, and it turned out that ISIS was a creature of the CIA, I for one would not be surprised in the least.
 
Montecresto said:
Yes of course. But they probably didn't tell Germany either. Why don't you begin debating then?
I prefer that the US gets president Assad's permission first, and that our president has congressional approval. Your belligerent approach is more failure.
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That this is probably the first time America has ever been left out of the loop by it's Allies should be newsworthy to all Americans.

America has become a clumsy giant, bumping and careening into the world's furniture, making dull and witless speeches between rounds of golf and without even a short term plan. Allies ignoring America is not a good thing but they know they cannot negotiate, or even reveal secrets, to a non-serious person. The question on many people's minds is whether the American people will elect a serious leader next time around or will The Stupids prevail again?
 
Henry David said:
If the truth were ever revealed someday in the future, and it turned out that ISIS was a creature of the CIA, I for one would not be surprised in the least.
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I haven't seen anyone offer any evidence of that or make that argument yet, but I wouldn't be surprised either. What is clear though, is that the power vacuums that the US has created has given power to these groups. And funny (not haha) that Egypt and UAE have had to go militarily address a US created problem in Libya. It's frustrating as all hell that too few Americans see this, particularly that its so obvious.
 
Grant said:
That this is probably the first time America has ever been left out of the loop by it's Allies should be newsworthy to all Americans.

America has become a clumsy giant, bumping and careening into the world's furniture, making dull and witless speeches between rounds of golf and without even a short term plan. Allies ignoring America is not a good thing but they know they cannot negotiate, or even reveal secrets, to a non-serious person. The question on many people's minds is whether the American people will elect a serious leader next time around or will The Stupids prevail again?
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Hip hip hurrah! I'm delighted. I'd like to see the ME take complete charge of their own, and for the US to spend more time and money on our heavy domestic woes. I'm ok with Canada doing something over there, if you could lobby them as heavily as you lobby DP. You sure love criticising over half the American population. Do you have such criticisms of Canadians?? Btw. What's Harper doing about this.
 
Caine said:
This coming from the guy who says to bomb the entire country from border to border........ Don't expect to be taken seriously.
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Obviously, humor was not an inherited trait in your family.

BUT ... I'm going to answer both you and Iguanaman in one post. Neither of you will like what I say, because the truth will make a lie of your position. Hopefully, though, it will make you think ... but I doubt that, too.

First of all ... it is antithetical to believe that countries seek freedom. Governments are not interested in freedom; they are only interested in power. For you to say that 'Iraq didn't want us there' is, frankly, naive. Of course, Iraq didn't want us there ... but the Iraqi people did. Freedom comes only to the people. It is the restrictions they place on the government ... thus, the government doesn't want it (including our own).

I saw people walk for miles to cast their first vote ... think they wanted us there? I saw an old grandma who couldn't walk ... she crawled, and she voted. Think she wanted us there?

Any idea of what a man who has been gutted like an animal smells like? Think he wanted protection? Ever seen what a seven year old boy looks like after he's been anally gang raped by 10 terrorists? Think he wanted protection? Ever looked into the eyes of a little girl who just watched her father hacked to death because he was born into the wrong family? Think she wanted us there? Know the smell of burning bodies - of small villages obliterated? Think they wanted us there? How about the 11 year old girl who hadn't seen her mother in 3 years because she had to hide out in her school, because if she left, she would be discovered, and her family would be summarily slaughtered? Think she wanted us there? Or, her father (who told everybody his oldest daughter had died), who every night, under cover of darkness, had to sneak food to her, sometimes driving 30 klicks out of his way to mislead those who watched? Think he wanted us there? Ever looked into the eyes of a 10 year old boy, with a bomb strapped to his chest, and seen the abject terror? Think he wanted us there?

I hear the ultimate stupidity - 'if they want freedom, they have to get it for themselves'.

People who want to be free - outgunned - unable to move for fear of retaliation. People who only want to live in peace, subjected to the worst of cruelties - oppressed under the thumb, and the fist, of the worst kind of tyrants and terrorists. Unarmed - uncoordinated. And, you expect them to fight professional armies. Hell, we couldn't do it - how could they? Had it not been for the 'invasion' of the French (who provided troops, supplies, arms, and professionalism to our cause - sound familiar?), and the support of Germans like Baron von Stuben, who turned our ragged band of farmers into soldiers (sound familiar?), we would have lost our revolution and would be bowing to the Queen today. I cannot think of a more selfish and vain position to take. How do you rationalize leaving an unarmed people to transgressions of a merciless enemy? Could you sleep at night knowing your failure to take action directly resulted in the death of some little 5 year old girl?

It's easy to sit here, in your nice little home with your nice little job and your nice little pension, where the biggest worry you got is whether or not to cut the grass this weekend, and pass judgement on people you don't know who live in conditions you can't even imagine and are subjected to horrors you can't even conceive. I can think of nothing more selfish, more vainglorious, more prideful than the cloak of self-righteousness, self-induced delusion of superiority, and ignorance you wear so proudly.
 
GBFAN said:
Obviously, humor was not an inherited trait in your family.

BUT ... I'm going to answer both you and Iguanaman in one post. Neither of you will like what I say, because the truth will make a lie of your position. Hopefully, though, it will make you think ... but I doubt that, too.

First of all ... it is antithetical to believe that countries seek freedom. Governments are not interested in freedom; they are only interested in power. For you to say that 'Iraq didn't want us there' is, frankly, naive. Of course, Iraq didn't want us there ... but the Iraqi people did. Freedom comes only to the people. It is the restrictions they place on the government ... thus, the government doesn't want it (including our own).

I saw people walk for miles to cast their first vote ... think they wanted us there? I saw an old grandma who couldn't walk ... she crawled, and she voted. Think she wanted us there?

Any idea of what a man who has been gutted like an animal smells like? Think he wanted protection? Ever seen what a seven year old boy looks like after he's been anally gang raped by 10 terrorists? Think he wanted protection? Ever looked into the eyes of a little girl who just watched her father hacked to death because he was born into the wrong family? Think she wanted us there? Know the smell of burning bodies - of small villages obliterated? Think they wanted us there? How about the 11 year old girl who hadn't seen her mother in 3 years because she had to hide out in her school, because if she left, she would be discovered, and her family would be summarily slaughtered? Think she wanted us there? Or, her father (who told everybody his oldest daughter had died), who every night, under cover of darkness, had to sneak food to her, sometimes driving 30 klicks out of his way to mislead those who watched? Think he wanted us there? Ever looked into the eyes of a 10 year old boy, with a bomb strapped to his chest, and seen the abject terror? Think he wanted us there?

I hear the ultimate stupidity - 'if they want freedom, they have to get it for themselves'.

People who want to be free - outgunned - unable to move for fear of retaliation. People who only want to live in peace, subjected to the worst of cruelties - oppressed under the thumb, and the fist, of the worst kind of tyrants and terrorists. Unarmed - uncoordinated. And, you expect them to fight professional armies. Hell, we couldn't do it - how could they? Had it not been for the 'invasion' of the French (who provided troops, supplies, arms, and professionalism to our cause - sound familiar?), and the support of Germans like Baron von Stuben, who turned our ragged band of farmers into soldiers (sound familiar?), we would have lost our revolution and would be bowing to the Queen today. I cannot think of a more selfish and vain position to take. How do you rationalize leaving an unarmed people to transgressions of a merciless enemy? Could you sleep at night knowing your failure to take action directly resulted in the death of some little 5 year old girl?

It's easy to sit here, in your nice little home with your nice little job and your nice little pension, where the biggest worry you got is whether or not to cut the grass this weekend, and pass judgement on people you don't know who live in conditions you can't even imagine and are subjected to horrors you can't even conceive. I can think of nothing more selfish, more vainglorious, more prideful than the cloak of self-righteousness, self-induced delusion of superiority, and ignorance you wear so proudly.
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Nor in yours if you think that given American history of bombing civilian targets, like whole cities, is something to be joking about.
 
Montecresto said:
Nor in yours if you think that given American history of bombing civilian targets, like whole cities, is something to be joking about.
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What a remarkably succinct, well grounded, and in-depth response. Your mom would be impressed.

Give me a break ...
 
GBFAN said:
What a remarkably succinct, well grounded, and in-depth response. Your mom would be impressed.

Give me a break ...
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Stop joking about bombing countries from border to border and you can have two!
 
Henry David said:
You are easily fooled, but so was I. Most of us were.

In my case, regarding the pictures you show, it took 4 years to realize I was tricked. 13 years later some folks have not yet realized they were fooled, and that is easily explained, because there has been a deliberate effort to reinforce in the public perception a Bright & Shining Lie.

For some it works, others not so much. :peace
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:lamo
 
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