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Thread: U.S. Weighs Direct Military Action Against ISIS in Syria

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    Re: U.S. Weighs Direct Military Action Against ISIS in Syria

    Quote Originally Posted by Montecresto View Post
    Hip hip hurrah! I'm delighted. I'd like to see the ME take complete charge of their own, and for the US to spend more time and money on our heavy domestic woes.
    So would I.
    I'm ok with Canada doing something over there
    Me too.
    if you could lobby them as heavily as you lobby DP.
    Lobbying?
    You sure love criticising over half the American population.
    You're wrong again. I don't love criticizing anyone.
    Do you have such criticisms of Canadians??
    I will if they elect Trudeau in the next federal election.
    What's Harper doing about this.
    Google is your friend.

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    Re: U.S. Weighs Direct Military Action Against ISIS in Syria

    Quote Originally Posted by GBFAN View Post
    Obviously, humor was not an inherited trait in your family.

    BUT ... I'm going to answer both you and Iguanaman in one post. Neither of you will like what I say, because the truth will make a lie of your position. Hopefully, though, it will make you think ... but I doubt that, too.

    First of all ... it is antithetical to believe that countries seek freedom. Governments are not interested in freedom; they are only interested in power. For you to say that 'Iraq didn't want us there' is, frankly, naive. Of course, Iraq didn't want us there ... but the Iraqi people did. Freedom comes only to the people. It is the restrictions they place on the government ... thus, the government doesn't want it (including our own).

    I saw people walk for miles to cast their first vote ... think they wanted us there? I saw an old grandma who couldn't walk ... she crawled, and she voted. Think she wanted us there?

    Any idea of what a man who has been gutted like an animal smells like? Think he wanted protection? Ever seen what a seven year old boy looks like after he's been anally gang raped by 10 terrorists? Think he wanted protection? Ever looked into the eyes of a little girl who just watched her father hacked to death because he was born into the wrong family? Think she wanted us there? Know the smell of burning bodies - of small villages obliterated? Think they wanted us there? How about the 11 year old girl who hadn't seen her mother in 3 years because she had to hide out in her school, because if she left, she would be discovered, and her family would be summarily slaughtered? Think she wanted us there? Or, her father (who told everybody his oldest daughter had died), who every night, under cover of darkness, had to sneak food to her, sometimes driving 30 klicks out of his way to mislead those who watched? Think he wanted us there? Ever looked into the eyes of a 10 year old boy, with a bomb strapped to his chest, and seen the abject terror? Think he wanted us there?

    I hear the ultimate stupidity - 'if they want freedom, they have to get it for themselves'.

    People who want to be free - outgunned - unable to move for fear of retaliation. People who only want to live in peace, subjected to the worst of cruelties - oppressed under the thumb, and the fist, of the worst kind of tyrants and terrorists. Unarmed - uncoordinated. And, you expect them to fight professional armies. Hell, we couldn't do it - how could they? Had it not been for the 'invasion' of the French (who provided troops, supplies, arms, and professionalism to our cause - sound familiar?), and the support of Germans like Baron von Stuben, who turned our ragged band of farmers into soldiers (sound familiar?), we would have lost our revolution and would be bowing to the Queen today. I cannot think of a more selfish and vain position to take. How do you rationalize leaving an unarmed people to transgressions of a merciless enemy? Could you sleep at night knowing your failure to take action directly resulted in the death of some little 5 year old girl?

    It's easy to sit here, in your nice little home with your nice little job and your nice little pension, where the biggest worry you got is whether or not to cut the grass this weekend, and pass judgement on people you don't know who live in conditions you can't even imagine and are subjected to horrors you can't even conceive. I can think of nothing more selfish, more vainglorious, more prideful than the cloak of self-righteousness, self-induced delusion of superiority, and ignorance you wear so proudly.
    Excellent post. Thank You! "...ne're so well expressed!"

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    Re: U.S. Weighs Direct Military Action Against ISIS in Syria

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    So would I. Me too. Lobbying? You're wrong again. I don't love criticizing anyone. I will if they elect Trudeau in the next federal election.Google is your friend.
    Figures you wouldn't know what Harpers on to in the ME.

    Glad the two of us agree that America should be taking care of her own problems, at least first.

    Do you have representatives in Canada you could tell that you'd like to see your country more involved in the ME?

    You routinely criticise those that voted for Obama.

    I can't speak to Trudeau.
    Killing one person is murder, killing 100,000 is foreign policy

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    Re: U.S. Weighs Direct Military Action Against ISIS in Syria

    Quote Originally Posted by GBFAN View Post
    BUT ... I'm going to answer both you and Iguanaman in one post. Neither of you will like what I say, because the truth will make a lie of your position. Hopefully, though, it will make you think ... but I doubt that, too.
    I read very little truth below.

    First of all ... it is antithetical to believe that countries seek freedom. Governments are not interested in freedom; they are only interested in power. For you to say that 'Iraq didn't want us there' is, frankly, naive. Of course, Iraq didn't want us there ... but the Iraqi people did. Freedom comes only to the people. It is the restrictions they place on the government ... thus, the government doesn't want it (including our own).
    And when I speak of Iraq, I speak of the people of Iraq. They DO possess the capability to stand up for themselves you know. Its not an entire country of quadriplegics.

    I saw people walk for miles to cast their first vote ... think they wanted us there? I saw an old grandma who couldn't walk ... she crawled, and she voted. Think she wanted us there?
    I think she wanted to vote. Has nothing to do with us being there or not.

    Any idea of what a man who has been gutted like an animal smells like?
    Yes actually I do.....
    Think he wanted protection?
    And he could have gotten it from his own people.
    Ever seen what a seven year old boy looks like after he's been anally gang raped by 10 terrorists? Think he wanted protection?
    1. No 2. Yes
    But this comment really doesn't make a point. More on that below.
    Ever looked into the eyes of a little girl who just watched her father hacked to death because he was born into the wrong family? Think she wanted us there?
    Again not making any points with all of this. More on that below though
    Know the smell of burning bodies - of small villages obliterated?
    Yes. Yes I have.
    Think they wanted us there?
    And they could have gotten protection from that from people closer to home as well. Still not making any points.
    How about the 11 year old girl who hadn't seen her mother in 3 years because she had to hide out in her school, because if she left, she would be discovered, and her family would be summarily slaughtered? Think she wanted us there? Or, her father (who told everybody his oldest daughter had died), who every night, under cover of darkness, had to sneak food to her, sometimes driving 30 klicks out of his way to mislead those who watched? Think he wanted us there? Ever looked into the eyes of a 10 year old boy, with a bomb strapped to his chest, and seen the abject terror? Think he wanted us there?
    And more and more.

    Your little images don't do much for your position for reasons stated below:

    A. These things happen in the U.S. too. Should foreign countries invade us because of this?
    B. These things can be handled by people there, in country... you know... those people we started training in 2003 (starting with the police) through 2011?
    C. What you seem to be implying is that nobody in the world can police their own streets and defend their own nation. They need the U.S. Tax payer and U.S. military to bring them FREEDOM.

    I hear the ultimate stupidity - 'if they want freedom, they have to get it for themselves'.
    We ousted a dictator, assisted in setting up a new government, trained their police, trained their military, fought insurgents with them for a while until there was relative stability then left.
    As I said... its time to sink or swim.


    People who want to be free - outgunned - unable to move for fear of retaliation. People who only want to live in peace, subjected to the worst of cruelties - oppressed under the thumb, and the fist, of the worst kind of tyrants and terrorists. Unarmed - uncoordinated. And, you expect them to fight professional armies. Hell, we couldn't do it - how could they? Had it not been for the 'invasion' of the French (who provided troops, supplies, arms, and professionalism to our cause - sound familiar?), and the support of Germans like Baron von Stuben, who turned our ragged band of farmers into soldiers (sound familiar?), we would have lost our revolution and would be bowing to the Queen today. I cannot think of a more selfish and vain position to take. How do you rationalize leaving an unarmed people to transgressions of a merciless enemy? Could you sleep at night knowing your failure to take action directly resulted in the death of some little 5 year old girl?
    We took nearly a decade of action and covered all of the things you mentioned already. Why are you acting like we didn't do anything?

    It's easy to sit here, in your nice little home with your nice little job and your nice little pension, where the biggest worry you got is whether or not to cut the grass this weekend, and pass judgement on people you don't know who live in conditions you can't even imagine and are subjected to horrors you can't even conceive. I can think of nothing more selfish, more vainglorious, more prideful than the cloak of self-righteousness, self-induced delusion of superiority, and ignorance you wear so proudly.
    You must not be talking to me..........
    You have created an image of me that is based on presumption and falsehoods and then proceeded to criticize me on this false life I live. Who is self-righteous now?

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    Re: U.S. Weighs Direct Military Action Against ISIS in Syria

    Quote Originally Posted by GBFAN View Post
    What a remarkably succinct, well grounded, and in-depth response. Your mom would be impressed.

    Give me a break ...
    Those who failed American history should be doomed to repeat it.

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    Re: U.S. Weighs Direct Military Action Against ISIS in Syria

    Quote Originally Posted by Caine View Post
    I read very little truth below.

    And when I speak of Iraq, I speak of the people of Iraq. They DO possess the capability to stand up for themselves you know. Its not an entire country of quadriplegics.

    I think she wanted to vote. Has nothing to do with us being there or not.

    Yes actually I do.....
    And he could have gotten it from his own people.
    1. No 2. Yes
    But this comment really doesn't make a point. More on that below.
    Again not making any points with all of this. More on that below though
    Yes. Yes I have. And they could have gotten protection from that from people closer to home as well. Still not making any points.
    And more and more.

    Your little images don't do much for your position for reasons stated below:

    A. These things happen in the U.S. too. Should foreign countries invade us because of this?
    B. These things can be handled by people there, in country... you know... those people we started training in 2003 (starting with the police) through 2011?
    C. What you seem to be implying is that nobody in the world can police their own streets and defend their own nation. They need the U.S. Tax payer and U.S. military to bring them FREEDOM.

    We ousted a dictator, assisted in setting up a new government, trained their police, trained their military, fought insurgents with them for a while until there was relative stability then left.
    As I said... its time to sink or swim.


    We took nearly a decade of action and covered all of the things you mentioned already. Why are you acting like we didn't do anything?

    You must not be talking to me..........
    You have created an image of me that is based on presumption and falsehoods and then proceeded to criticize me on this false life I live. Who is self-righteous now?
    1) When we went into Iraq, the 'people' were NOT able to 'stand up for themselves'. They feared their government, its secret assassination squads, its vindictive leader. Even today, as we've seen, they aren't capable of 'standing up for themselves'. Do you seriously believe that they welcome ISIS, that they want to be crucified, tortured, or killed?

    2) As for Grandma - there would have been no vote had we not guaranteed the safety of the voters and the polling places. Do you really, actually, believe that she was suddenly going to throw off the restraints and rise up against a tyrant who, at the time, had the third largest army in the world?

    3) And, just what people were going to give our gutted man protection? The people who did it? Maybe the grandma who couldn't walk? C'mon man, you have no idea what it is like to be oppressed by your own government. You need to get out more.

    4) A. These things happen in the US, too? Are you serious? Maybe you can tell me the last time a group of government agents, military, police, or otherwise, gang raped a 10 year old? Gutted a man? You have no idea what the real world is, do you? You live smugly under this nice little dome where evil and brutality never come to visit, and you DARE to pass judgment on people who have lived in fear of terrorists who come in the middle of the night their whole lives?

    5) B. The point is ... they can't handle it themselves. You've seen that - do you seriously think they willingly allowed ISIS to take over half their country?

    6. C. THAT is exactly what I am saying .... there is no country in the world - including our own - in which the unarmed, uneducated populace can rise up and take their freedom back from a well-staffed, well armed army. Out of one side of your mouth, you laugh at those Americans who claim they will overthrow the government - knowing the impossibility of it - and out of the other, you yell for Iraqis, or Afghans, or Libyans, or Syrians to do the very thing you can't do. We couldn't do it, when we were young - what makes you think someone else can?

    We made a commitment to those people - we said we'd be there while they got it up and running. We promised them we would provide them safety and security until their country was stabilized. It took us 7 years to write our Constitution. It took us 12 years to come together as a nation, and you expect them to do it in three years. We made them a promise - we lied. Obama reneged on that promise, and left them at the mercy of ISIS. You, and others, seem to have conveniently forgotten that a war isn't over when the shooting stops.

    The truth is much simpler - you are too selfish, too self centered, and too comfortable to help a people gain their freedom. You put your own comfort and ease ahead of the freedom of the people of Iraq. You're not willing to give up an extra cappuccino to help someone, much less commit your treasure, or your son, to help them. You don't think enough of freedom, you don't hold it in high enough regard, to do anything to protect it. You DO, however, believe that YOU deserve it, but nobody else does.

    You say I mischaracterize you? Oh? Are you willing to give up a cappaccino? Are you willing to commit your treasure to help them? Your son? I haven't mischaracterized you ... I've forced you to look in the mirror, and I don't think you much like what you see. Talk's cheap - Next time you look in the mirror, I want you to imagine what that seven year old boy looked like when the terrorists got done. I want you to imagine the smell of a village burning, the bodies smoldering. Then - tell me you need that extra wide-screen tv in the bedroom more than they need our support.

    Obviously, I've been there ... obviously, I believe in the Iraqi people ... obviously, I believe it's worth the price. You don't ... too sad.
    Last edited by GBFAN; 08-27-14 at 08:35 PM.

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    Re: U.S. Weighs Direct Military Action Against ISIS in Syria

    Quote Originally Posted by Montecresto View Post
    Hip hip hurrah! I'm delighted. I'd like to see the ME take complete charge of their own, and for the US to spend more time and money on our heavy domestic woes. I'm ok with Canada doing something over there, if you could lobby them as heavily as you lobby DP. You sure love criticising over half the American population. Do you have such criticisms of Canadians?? Btw. What's Harper doing about this.
    By the way, do you understand that I did not criticize over half of the American population?

    Your responses appear to be on autopilot.

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    Re: U.S. Weighs Direct Military Action Against ISIS in Syria

    Quote Originally Posted by GBFAN View Post
    1) When we went into Iraq, the 'people' were NOT able to 'stand up for themselves'. They feared their government, its secret assassination squads, its vindictive leader. Even today, as we've seen, they aren't capable of 'standing up for themselves'. Do you seriously believe that they welcome ISIS, that they want to be crucified, tortured, or killed?

    2) As for Grandma - there would have been no vote had we not guaranteed the safety of the voters and the polling places. Do you really, actually, believe that she was suddenly going to throw off the restraints and rise up against a tyrant who, at the time, had the third largest army in the world?

    3) And, just what people were going to give our gutted man protection? The people who did it? Maybe the grandma who couldn't walk? C'mon man, you have no idea what it is like to be oppressed by your own government. You need to get out more.

    4) A. These things happen in the US, too? Are you serious? Maybe you can tell me the last time a group of government agents, military, police, or otherwise, gang raped a 10 year old? Gutted a man? You have no idea what the real world is, do you? You live smugly under this nice little dome where evil and brutality never come to visit, and you DARE to pass judgment on people who have lived in fear of terrorists who come in the middle of the night their whole lives?

    5) B. The point is ... they can't handle it themselves. You've seen that - do you seriously think they willingly allowed ISIS to take over half their country?

    6. C. THAT is exactly what I am saying .... there is no country in the world - including our own - in which the unarmed, uneducated populace can rise up and take their freedom back from a well-staffed, well armed army. Out of one side of your mouth, you laugh at those Americans who claim they will overthrow the government - knowing the impossibility of it - and out of the other, you yell for Iraqis, or Afghans, or Libyans, or Syrians to do the very thing you can't do. We couldn't do it, when we were young - what makes you think someone else can?

    We made a commitment to those people - we said we'd be there while they got it up and running. We promised them we would provide them safety and security until their country was stabilized. It took us 7 years to write our Constitution. It took us 12 years to come together as a nation, and you expect them to do it in three years. We made them a promise - we lied. Obama reneged on that promise, and left them at the mercy of ISIS. You, and others, seem to have conveniently forgotten that a war isn't over when the shooting stops.

    The truth is much simpler - you are too selfish, too self centered, and too comfortable to help a people gain their freedom. You put your own comfort and ease ahead of the freedom of the people of Iraq. You're not willing to give up an extra cappuccino to help someone, much less commit your treasure, or your son, to help them. You don't think enough of freedom, you don't hold it in high enough regard, to do anything to protect it. You DO, however, believe that YOU deserve it, but nobody else does.

    You say I mischaracterize you? Oh? Are you willing to give up a cappaccino? Are you willing to commit your treasure to help them? Your son? I haven't mischaracterized you ... I've forced you to look in the mirror, and I don't think you much like what you see. Talk's cheap - Next time you look in the mirror, I want you to imagine what that seven year old boy looked like when the terrorists got done. I want you to imagine the smell of a village burning, the bodies smoldering. Then - tell me you need that extra wide-screen tv in the bedroom more than they need our support.

    Obviously, I've been there ... obviously, I believe in the Iraqi people ... obviously, I believe it's worth the price. You don't ... too sad.
    I can't help but laugh at all of the renewed assumptions of me that you have made here.

    1. I don't live in a dome where evil and brutality never visit. I've dealt with both as a paratrooper in the 82nd Airborne in Iraq 2003 and as a civilian police officer. But you keep making assumptions based on nothing more than my position that Iraq is a waste of resources.

    2. I don't drink cappuccino.


    Now I am going to make some assumptions about you. You have a hero complex, developed at some point during your time in the military. During your deployments you have learned that it is harder to face the realities of a normal life than it is to just be sent off somewhere where you get to fulfill some alleged greater purpose. I've seen your type In the Army. They would rather go on deployment than see the birth of their child or take him to soccer practice.

    You talk about the beginning of the Iraq conflict as if nothing happened in between. We armed them and trained them yet you keep ignoring that. You seem to think that it is the job of the American tax payer to bring freedom to the world. But the last time I checked the taxes paid were to provide for our defense, not the defense of other nations.

    We armed them and trained them. They failed. Bailing them out sets a precedence that other nations need not concern themselves with their own defense because 'Merica will always deliver a dose of FREEDOM.
    "I condemn the ideology of White Supremacy and Nazism. They are thugs, criminals, and repugnant, and are against what I believe to be "The American Way" "
    Thus my obligatory condemnation of White supremacy will now be in every post, lest I be accused of supporting it because I didn't mention it specifically every time I post.

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    Re: U.S. Weighs Direct Military Action Against ISIS in Syria

    ISIS in Iraq is just part of the payback.


    April 7, 2013 |

    Death squads, torture, secret prisons in Iraq, and General David Petraeus are among the featured atrocities in a recently-released new British documentary – James Steele: America’s Mystery Man in Iraq – the result of a 15-month investigation by Guardian Films and BBC Arabic, exploring war crimes long denied by the Pentagon but confirmed by thousands of military field reports made public by Wikileaks.
    Killing one person is murder, killing 100,000 is foreign policy

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    Re: U.S. Weighs Direct Military Action Against ISIS in Syria

    Quote Originally Posted by Montecresto View Post
    ISIS in Iraq is just part of the payback.


    April 7, 2013 |

    Death squads, torture, secret prisons in Iraq, and General David Petraeus are among the featured atrocities in a recently-released new British documentary – James Steele: America’s Mystery Man in Iraq – the result of a 15-month investigation by Guardian Films and BBC Arabic, exploring war crimes long denied by the Pentagon but confirmed by thousands of military field reports made public by Wikileaks.
    Do you agree with Imam Anjem Choudary from England?
    Americans are so enamored of equality that they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom.

    Alexis de Tocqueville

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