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Thread: Another fatal shooting in St. Louis

  1. #81
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    Re: Another fatal shooting in St. Louis

    Quote Originally Posted by Gladiator View Post
    How long does it take to fire a taser? Maybe there should be a rule that any police officer should have his taser drawn when going to a knife report. A taser can go 16 Feet.

    Before a policeman kills someone, there should be a duty to at least attempt to taser the individual

    Many police are trained to go for the kill with little provocation. The training should be improved to include non-lethal attempts to subdue a belligerent individual.

    Some branches of Aiklido teach protecting oneself, while discharging anger from the individual. "Why are you upset?" "Why are you angry?" Get the guy talking, working out his anger or fears.


    When a policeman is asked, "Why did you use lethal force on this individual?"

    The Officer should be able to explain how he tried to use a taser at first.


    //
    Can you please provide a source for that (bolded)? (No, you cant.) I can tell you what they are taught tho.

    And if you are being attacked, you need to stop the threat as quickly as possible. Otherwise the attacker kills YOU. Or takes your weapon and kills other people....they are a danger to the public as well.

    It is utterly ridiculous if you think that in most lethal confrontations, people always have the option of using non-lethal force. Do you have no idea at all how quickly life or death situations go down? If it wasnt so fast, most wouldnt be life-threatening.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bucky View Post
    I have felt pain when I was in the womb. So when you say they are incapable of feeling pain, that is based on junk science.
    Quote Originally Posted by applejuicefool View Post
    A murderer putting a bullet through someone's brain is a medical procedure too.

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    Re: Another fatal shooting in St. Louis

    Quote Originally Posted by Gladiator View Post
    I am talking about the training of the officers.

    Maybe the officers should be taught to shoot a taser with their left hand. What training have the officers had in diffusing Anger and Fear? Many people take cocaine and Crack. These drugs, and others, have comedowns, that makes people agitated.

    What training did the officer have in quelling a disturbed person? What training did he have in disarming a person with a knife? Did the officer even think about shooting the taser first with his left hand? Had he target practices left hand with a taser?


    //
    ???? Do you have any idea what training with a firearm requires? And accurately aiming? Accurately aiming under the threat of dying and at a moving target??? And you want them to be drawing 2 weapons??

    And you dont physically disarm someone with a knife. You order them to put it down. If they do not and become a lethal threat while holding it, they will get lethal force used against them. For the protection of the cop and the public.

    You watch too much TV.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bucky View Post
    I have felt pain when I was in the womb. So when you say they are incapable of feeling pain, that is based on junk science.
    Quote Originally Posted by applejuicefool View Post
    A murderer putting a bullet through someone's brain is a medical procedure too.

  3. #83
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    Re: Another fatal shooting in St. Louis

    Quote Originally Posted by Gladiator View Post
    The exact facts of this case are not known with precision. The officer may have considered to use a taser, but did not have time.

    What was his training?

    When shooting a 9 MM pistol, it is often helpful to brace the right hand with the left hand. The left hand could be ready to shoot the Traser, drop the traser launcher, in one movement, while staring to pull the trigger with the right hand, if necessary. With practice. This could be practiced, fire the traser, then fire the pistol, in quick succession.

    There could be more police shootings avoided, if police had better training.



    //
    So you have weapons in 2 hands and are sighting and aiming down....which one?? You can only sight one at a time.

    Not to mention that if someone is a lethal threat, you have no right to compel an officer to risk his life by a more time-consuming and risky process. He has a family too.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bucky View Post
    I have felt pain when I was in the womb. So when you say they are incapable of feeling pain, that is based on junk science.
    Quote Originally Posted by applejuicefool View Post
    A murderer putting a bullet through someone's brain is a medical procedure too.

  4. #84
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    Re: Another fatal shooting in St. Louis

    Quote Originally Posted by ~SAL View Post
    Public safety is critical, I agree.

    If you don't want to be shot by the police, don't do that, I agree.

    Here's the addition to that though, if you are going to arm a group of people with big guns and ask them to protect the public, they had best be mentally and physically capable of that job with a higher than average IQ, fully trained, know how to negotiate and kill only as a last resort. And they have to be accountable for those deaths. And throw a camera on them so we know how each and every kill goes down. That protects the public and the cops.
    Well then maybe the public better pay them for that too. It's not like cops get rich being cops.

    And the law and their procedures are only to kill as a last resort.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bucky View Post
    I have felt pain when I was in the womb. So when you say they are incapable of feeling pain, that is based on junk science.
    Quote Originally Posted by applejuicefool View Post
    A murderer putting a bullet through someone's brain is a medical procedure too.

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    Re: Another fatal shooting in St. Louis

    Quote Originally Posted by Gladiator View Post
    So there is some reason the police could not have tried a stun gun before using lethal force? Seems like poor police training.
    Are St Louis officers even issued stun guns? I have no idea.

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    Re: Another fatal shooting in St. Louis

    Quote Originally Posted by Gladiator View Post
    Seattle Police are apparently trained how to use trasers, before shooting. Why can't St. Louis officer be trained to use a taser first?

    There might be less riots if trasers were tried first.

    If Brown was 30 feet away, what was the danger to the officer?

    "On Tuesday, King County Sheriff's deputies tried to Tase a burglary suspect. That failed, and police shot him. He's now hospitalized.

    Last month, a Taser had no effect on a suspect who stopped his pickup in the middle of traffic on the Ship Canal Bridge.

    "A lot of deployments are done in split second timing with someone charging," Tuttle said. "You may have weapon and may be violent and you may have to hit a moving target and that may be in play here."

    That may have been the case in Kitsap County when a suspect pulled a knife. When the Taser didn't stop him, officers fired multiple shots, killing the man."

    Tasers ineffective in four recent officer-involved shootings | Local & Regional | Seattle News, Weather, Sports, Breaking News | KOMO News
    Soooo....you have just given us examples...4 examples....where tasers didnt work.

    And yet you would still insist that cops MUST use that first in lethal confrontations? Risk their lives even more?

    Did you realize you actually typed and posted that?
    Quote Originally Posted by Bucky View Post
    I have felt pain when I was in the womb. So when you say they are incapable of feeling pain, that is based on junk science.
    Quote Originally Posted by applejuicefool View Post
    A murderer putting a bullet through someone's brain is a medical procedure too.

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    Re: Another fatal shooting in St. Louis

    Quote Originally Posted by ~SAL View Post
    And that may well be.

    It is none the less, a shame when no other option appears to be available or police panic and shoot instead of using their head.

    It's a shame....but it's not the cops' fault that they had to defend themselves and the public. That's very disrespectful of their lives to claim they could have 'thought of something else' to save a criminal threatening them with a knife.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bucky View Post
    I have felt pain when I was in the womb. So when you say they are incapable of feeling pain, that is based on junk science.
    Quote Originally Posted by applejuicefool View Post
    A murderer putting a bullet through someone's brain is a medical procedure too.

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    Re: Another fatal shooting in St. Louis

    Quote Originally Posted by Gladiator View Post
    What is wrong with some more advanced training with a combination of Traser first, Shoot second?

    What is wrong with having more training is asking nut jobs questions to get them thinking more rationally?

    The training is not there. It is not about Never killing anyone. It is about TRYING to avoid death. Tasers are a step in avoiding deaths.
    Not in the four examples you gave. THey were failures.

    Why should the cops be the ones to sacrifice their lives by taking higher risks? THey're not the ones breaking the law.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bucky View Post
    I have felt pain when I was in the womb. So when you say they are incapable of feeling pain, that is based on junk science.
    Quote Originally Posted by applejuicefool View Post
    A murderer putting a bullet through someone's brain is a medical procedure too.

  9. #89
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    Re: Another fatal shooting in St. Louis

    Quote Originally Posted by Gladiator View Post
    Sometimes they work.
    Feel free to risk your life on 'sometimes.'

    It's incredibly arrogant and dismissive of someone else's life to ask them to.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bucky View Post
    I have felt pain when I was in the womb. So when you say they are incapable of feeling pain, that is based on junk science.
    Quote Originally Posted by applejuicefool View Post
    A murderer putting a bullet through someone's brain is a medical procedure too.

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    Re: Another fatal shooting in St. Louis

    Quote Originally Posted by Fenton View Post
    Tazers are not always effective.

    So, YOU have a highly agitated guy, brandishing a knife, refusing your commands, he may be on something ( you dont know ) and you have the choice of maybe pissing him off even more with a tazer and losing the 2 or 3 seconds needed to pull your pistol and stop the threat before he plunges that knife in your neck, or do you defend yourself properly ?

    Cops deserve to go home to their families every night too.
    Suppose the cop had used a tazer, and the guy still managed to stab him. A taze wears off fast, the cop bleeds out, the perp takes the cop's gun and then OP makes a thread "why do we arm police if they won't shoot".

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