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Thread: Another fatal shooting in St. Louis

  1. #51
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    Re: Another fatal shooting in St. Louis

    Quote Originally Posted by Fiddytree View Post
    Suicide by police isn't something that will make me critical of officers in question.
    Same. He was asking to be shot. It's not like he was walking down the street unarmed or anything.
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    Re: Another fatal shooting in St. Louis

    Quote Originally Posted by Gonzo Rodeo View Post
    21 foot rule. If you're close enough to use a taser, he's close enough to cause serious harm with a knife, up to and including death.

    Knives are weapons.
    Damn right.

    So are fists.

    You are educated.
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  3. #53
    Why so serious?

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    Re: Another fatal shooting in St. Louis

    Quote Originally Posted by Gladiator View Post
    What is wrong with some more advanced training with a combination of Traser first, Shoot second?

    What is wrong with having more training is asking nut jobs questions to get them thinking more rationally?

    The training is not there. It is not about Never killing anyone. It is about TRYING to avoid death. Tasers are a step in avoiding deaths.
    Rule number one is to eliminate the threat. It's stupid to ask cops to jeopardize their lives just so you feel better.
    "I believe in a Spinoza's God who reveals himself in the harmony of all that exists, but not in a God who concerns himself with the fate and actions of human beings."

    --Albert Einstein, 1929

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    Re: Another fatal shooting in St. Louis

    Quote Originally Posted by Moon View Post
    Rule number one is to eliminate the threat. It's stupid to ask cops to jeopardize their lives just so you feel better.
    Well done.
    Greatness lies not in being strong, but in the right use of strength - Henry Ward Beecher
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    Re: Another fatal shooting in St. Louis

    Quote Originally Posted by ~SAL View Post
    It may sound like that to you because you do not wish to understand the situation as I presented it and then discuss it from there.

    So in your world it just perfectly normal to not examine the facts, make huge leaps in judgement and arrive at the conclusion you wish regardless of the facts?

    Now that's unbelievable.

    The statement I made about you is ludicrous but no more so than your summation of my post.

    Enjoy your evening.
    And it seems I still can't get you to just admit that his actions were criminal, and were the cause of his own death.

    Besides, it would appear you have left out some of the details of that situation...... shame on you.

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    Re: Another fatal shooting in St. Louis

    Quote Originally Posted by Gladiator View Post
    What is wrong with some more advanced training with a combination of Traser first, Shoot second?

    What is wrong with having more training is asking nut jobs questions to get them thinking more rationally?

    The training is not there. It is not about Never killing anyone. It is about TRYING to avoid death. Tasers are a step in avoiding deaths.
    Time... What don't you get about it?

    This isn't TV and movies, people don't stand around talking for 10 minutes for the "drama" of it, and life doesn't slow down to slo-mo while someone is advancing on you at a fast pace with a weapon and the intent to cause harm or kill you.

    If multiple officers have the TIME to COORDINATE for one to use taser while others have weapons drawn, and ensure they are positioned so that this tactic will go down without causing harm to themselves, then sure. That usually isn't going to be the case unless its a TV movie drama scene.

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    Re: Another fatal shooting in St. Louis

    Quote Originally Posted by The Man View Post
    The difference is, that man wasn't armed, and stun guns don't always work to stop someone.
    Stun-guns kill people too.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    Re: Another fatal shooting in St. Louis

    Quote Originally Posted by Caine View Post
    And it seems I still can't get you to just admit that his actions were criminal, and were the cause of his own death.

    Besides, it would appear you have left out some of the details of that situation...... shame on you.
    You can't get me? are we in grade 2?

    oh well, let's keep it on your level for a minute: yes for that you would need a rational argument not emotional pontification

    shame on me, are you serious...

    don't win many debates eh?

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    Re: Another fatal shooting in St. Louis

    Quote Originally Posted by Caine View Post
    Time... What don't you get about it?

    This isn't TV and movies, people don't stand around talking for 10 minutes for the "drama" of it, and life doesn't slow down to slo-mo while someone is advancing on you at a fast pace with a weapon and the intent to cause harm or kill you.

    If multiple officers have the TIME to COORDINATE for one to use taser while others have weapons drawn, and ensure they are positioned so that this tactic will go down without causing harm to themselves, then sure. That usually isn't going to be the case unless its a TV movie drama scene.
    Law enforcement injuries reduced 86% Arrestee injuries reduced 79%

    Science and Medical



    TASER® Benefits for Law Enforcement


    "Despite the Taser’s increasing popularity among police agencies, questions have been raised concerning the weapon’s use and effectiveness as well as its potential to cause serious injury or death. This article examines all Taser deployments by the New York City Police Department from 2002 to 2005 ( N = 375) and uses two multivariate approaches—logistic regression and chi-square automatic interaction detection—to identify predictors of Taser effectiveness, measured as continued suspect resistance and officer satisfaction. Findings indicate that several factors are associated with reduced effectiveness, including suspect body weight (more than 200 pounds), drug and alcohol use, physical violence, and close distance (3 feet or less) between the officer and the suspect. Although this study represents a preliminary effort at identifying predictors of Taser effectiveness, there are clear training and policy implications for police departments. "

    The Impact of the Taser on Suspect Resistance: Identifying Predictors of Effectiveness


    "The Taser fires two small dart-like electrodes, which stay connected to the main unit by conductive wire as they are propelled by small compressed nitrogen charges.[15][16] The air cartridge contains a pair of electrodes and propellant for a single shot and is replaced after each use. There are a number of cartridges designated by range, with the maximum at 35 feet (10.6 m).[16] Cartridges available to non-law enforcement consumers are limited to 15 feet (4.5 m).[17] The electrodes are pointed to penetrate clothing and barbed to prevent removal once in place. Earlier Taser models had difficulty in penetrating thick clothing, but newer versions (X26, C2) use a "shaped pulse" that increases effectiveness in the presence of barriers.[18]

    Tasers also provide a safety benefit to police officers as they have a greater deployment range than batons, pepper spray or empty hand techniques. This allows police to maintain a safe distance. A study of use-of-force incidents by the Calgary Police Service conducted by the Canadian Police Research Centre found that the use of Tasers resulted in fewer injuries than the use of batons or empty hand techniques. Only pepper spray was found to be a safer intervention option.[19]"

    Taser - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia



    "Tasers and other stun guns have proved effective in limiting injuries to police and suspects, but law enforcement needs to guard against potential abuse by officers who overly rely on such tools, a three-year study by University of South Carolina researchers found.

    The findings are included in one of the largest studies conducted into police use of force and injuries that result from stun guns, pepper spray, batons and firearms. The study, funded by a $650,000 U.S. Justice Department grant, comes at a time when more than 11,500 police agencies use Tasers to control suspects.

    Geoff Alpert, a USC criminology professor and principal investigator for the study, said researchers found electrical stun devices and pepper spray clearly reduce the likelihood of injuries to officers and suspects. "

    http://www.postandcourier.com/articl...1602/307089904







    //
    Last edited by Gladiator; 08-19-14 at 09:24 PM.
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    Re: Another fatal shooting in St. Louis

    Quote Originally Posted by Gladiator View Post
    How long does it take to fire a taser? Maybe there should be a rule that any police officer should have his taser drawn when going to a knife report. A taser can go 16 Feet.

    Before a policeman kills someone, there should be a duty to at least attempt to taser the individual

    Many police are trained to go for the kill with little provocation. The training should be improved to include non-lethal attempts to subdue a belligerent individual.

    Some branches of Aiklido teach protecting oneself, while discharging anger from the individual. "Why are you upset?" "Why are you angry?" Get the guy talking, working out his anger or fears.


    When a policeman is asked, "Why did you use lethal force on this individual?"

    The Officer should be able to explain how he tried to use a taser at first.


    //


    If a guy has a knife in his hand...he is a lethal threat. Taser isn't going to cut it. Sorry. Real life isn't a movie. Tasers don't automatically knock people out.

    All the officer needs to explain is how he killed someone wielding a knife.
    The Crowd is not the sum of its parts.

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