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Thread: Another fatal shooting in St. Louis

  1. #31
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    Re: Another fatal shooting in St. Louis

    Quote Originally Posted by The Man View Post
    What is a 'small knife'? On a scale of 1 being a Buck pocket knife and 10 being a machete, how did the bus hijacker's knife rank?

    He was stupid regardless for getting onto a bus, brandishing a knife and forcing people off. If you don't want to get shot by police, don't do that. It's simple. The police bear no fault.
    Knife size is irrelevant to me when a kid is alone on a city bus with a knife, nothing I am going to say is going to change your mind about what you believe is a righteous kill either here or in the Toronto case.

    to me, it's a high price to pay for a psychotic break

    I know for many the world is a place of right and wrong, black and white with little to no grey or nuance, I just have never been able to view any situation that way for the most part until I've considered all alternatives...

    to me, all alternatives should be considered before taking a life, sometimes it has to be done, other times if it had been handled by someone with the ability to analyze, someone with a modicum of understanding about human behaviour things end best for all, in my little world at least

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    Re: Another fatal shooting in St. Louis

    Quote Originally Posted by ~SAL View Post
    Knife size is irrelevant to me when a kid is alone on a city bus with a knife, nothing I am going to say is going to change your mind about what you believe is a righteous kill either here or in the Toronto case.

    to me, it's a high price to pay for a psychotic break

    I know for many the world is a place of right and wrong, black and white with little to no grey or nuance, I just have never been able to view any situation that way for the most part until I've considered all alternatives...

    to me, all alternatives should be considered before taking a life, sometimes it has to be done, other times if it had been handled by someone with the ability to analyze, someone with a modicum of understanding about human behaviour things end best for all, in my little world at least
    But it's not just a psychotic break, it's a public threat, and yes, they are a bad guy when they do that. The reality is, if you don't want any chance of getting shot by police, don't do that **** in public. The police in this Missouri situation did everything right.

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    Re: Another fatal shooting in St. Louis

    Quote Originally Posted by Fenton View Post
    Sounds like suicide by cop to me.

    You know, because its literally suicide to confront a Police Officer with a knife.
    Certainly does on the surface. I have to wonder the guy's mental status.
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    You have no empirical evidence backing up your false assertion. You are simply conjecturing based on a whim...
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    Another fatal shooting in St. Louis

    Quote Originally Posted by Gladiator View Post
    I am talking about the training of the officers.

    Maybe the officers should be taught to shoot a taser with their left hand. What training have the officers had in diffusing Anger and Fear? Many people take cocaine and Crack. These drugs, and others, have comedowns, that makes people agitated.

    What training did the officer have in quelling a disturbed person? What training did he have in disarming a person with a knife? Did the officer even think about shooting the taser first with his left hand? Had he target practices left hand with a taser?


    //
    So you are of the mind that this criminal being shot and killed is totally the officers'/police department's fault, and the criminal attacking with a knife did nothing to make it his own fault?

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    Re: Another fatal shooting in St. Louis

    Quote Originally Posted by The Man View Post
    So you are of the mind that this criminal being shot and killed is totally the officers'/police department's fault, and the criminal attacking with a knife did nothing to make it his own fault?
    The exact facts of this case are not known with precision. The officer may have considered to use a taser, but did not have time.

    What was his training?

    When shooting a 9 MM pistol, it is often helpful to brace the right hand with the left hand. The left hand could be ready to shoot the Traser, drop the traser launcher, in one movement, while staring to pull the trigger with the right hand, if necessary. With practice. This could be practiced, fire the traser, then fire the pistol, in quick succession.

    There could be more police shootings avoided, if police had better training.



    //
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    Re: Another fatal shooting in St. Louis

    Quote Originally Posted by Gladiator View Post
    How long does it take to fire a taser? Maybe there should be a rule that any police officer should have his taser drawn when going to a knife report. A taser can go 16 Feet.

    Before a policeman kills someone, there should be a duty to at least attempt to taser the individual

    Many police are trained to go for the kill with little provocation. The training should be improved to include non-lethal attempts to subdue a belligerent individual.

    Some branches of Aiklido teach protecting oneself, while discharging anger from the individual. "Why are you upset?" "Why are you angry?" Get the guy talking, working out his anger or fears.


    When a policeman is asked, "Why did you use lethal force on this individual?"

    The Officer should be able to explain how he tried to use a taser at first.


    //
    You don't seem to understand this isn't tv and movies. It takes virtually no time to walk 10 feet. 3 seconds is a very slow walk of 10 feet. To transition from an ineffective taser shot to a firearm takes longer than that. Not worth the risk of death.

    Do an experiment. Put a set of keys in your pocket and have a friend walk 10 feet from you. At the command go, have them walk toward you at a moderate pace while you transition from pointing at them to pulling the keys out of your pocket and pointing the keys at them.

    And that experiment is giving you more advantage over an officer because you already know exactly what to do and are not in fear for your life.
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    Re: Another fatal shooting in St. Louis

    Quote Originally Posted by The Man View Post
    But it's not just a psychotic break, it's a public threat, and yes, they are a bad guy when they do that. The reality is, if you don't want any chance of getting shot by police, don't do that **** in public. The police in this Missouri situation did everything right.
    Public safety is critical, I agree.

    If you don't want to be shot by the police, don't do that, I agree.

    Here's the addition to that though, if you are going to arm a group of people with big guns and ask them to protect the public, they had best be mentally and physically capable of that job with a higher than average IQ, fully trained, know how to negotiate and kill only as a last resort. And they have to be accountable for those deaths. And throw a camera on them so we know how each and every kill goes down. That protects the public and the cops.

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    Re: Another fatal shooting in St. Louis

    Quote Originally Posted by ~SAL View Post
    There is no rooting for the bad guy. Often times there is no bad guy just poor judgment on both sides. In the Toronto case it was a small knife and he had evacuated the other riders from the bus. No one was going to get harmed. My god they could have just waited him out. Why must every situation be met with violence...why is that rooted on? What is great about taking the life of another human being? In the Toronto case it left a family with a dead kid, a kid who had just had a meltdown and was suicidal...how is that being a bad guy? Just a confused kid with some mental issues.

    As for here, we don't know his story, maybe it was justified but what if someone had some training and a clear head and been able to get him to put it down...would that not have been the best solution for all? I think so.

    If you know someone who has taken a life either in a justified manner or by accident, you know from that person, there are recurring doubts. It is not an easy thing to live with and neither should it be...you can't bring them back you have to live with having taken a life.
    So it's perfectly normal and acceptable to hijack a bus? That is just considered a "bad decision"? Sounds like you are excusing criminal behavior to me.

    Unbelievable
    "I condemn the ideology of White Supremacy and Nazism. They are thugs, criminals, and repugnant, and are against what I believe to be "The American Way" "
    Thus my obligatory condemnation of White supremacy will now be in every post, lest I be accused of supporting it because I didn't mention it specifically every time I post.

  9. #39
    Why so serious?

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    Re: Another fatal shooting in St. Louis

    Quote Originally Posted by Gladiator View Post
    ". LOUIS, MO (KTVI) – St. Louis Police Chief Sam Dotson says officers warned a suspect multiple times to put down his weapon before they shot and killed him.

    The shooting happened around 1 p.m. Tuesday at McLaran and Riverview. Police say the suspect tried to rob the Six Star Market convenience store with a knife. Chief Sam Dotson said the store owner let the man leave the store. A St. Louis City Alderwoman witnessed the man walking erratically around and called police.

    When officers arrived, the suspect refused to put down weapon despite multiple verbal command by police. Chief Sam Dotson says the man yelled at officers “shoot me now” several times. Witnesses also confirmed what the man said.

    Dotson says the man continued to refuse the officer’s commands, approached within three to four feet of them with the knife in an attack posture."

    St. Louis City police shoot, kill knife-wielding suspect | FOX2now.com


    So there is some reason the police could not have tried a stun gun before using lethal force? Seems like poor police training.





    //
    Becoming a police officer doesn't mean you are making a suicide pact with every nutjob with a weapon. If there's a threat it should be neutralized as efficiently as possible without risk to the officer or any bystanders.
    "I believe in a Spinoza's God who reveals himself in the harmony of all that exists, but not in a God who concerns himself with the fate and actions of human beings."

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    Re: Another fatal shooting in St. Louis

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Fabulous View Post
    St. Louis police fatally shoot knife-wielding suspect | Fox News



    When it rains it pours...

    This one, on the surface, looks pretty cut and dried but in light of what is happening there already I fear that it will only stoke the fires.
    Nah, the police chief met with the community and explained what happened. That put the fire out. Maybe the police chief of Ferguson could learn something from him.
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