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Thread: Another fatal shooting in St. Louis

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    Re: Another fatal shooting in St. Louis

    Quote Originally Posted by Gladiator View Post
    ". LOUIS, MO (KTVI) – St. Louis Police Chief Sam Dotson says officers warned a suspect multiple times to put down his weapon before they shot and killed him.

    The shooting happened around 1 p.m. Tuesday at McLaran and Riverview. Police say the suspect tried to rob the Six Star Market convenience store with a knife. Chief Sam Dotson said the store owner let the man leave the store. A St. Louis City Alderwoman witnessed the man walking erratically around and called police.

    When officers arrived, the suspect refused to put down weapon despite multiple verbal command by police. Chief Sam Dotson says the man yelled at officers “shoot me now” several times. Witnesses also confirmed what the man said.

    Dotson says the man continued to refuse the officer’s commands, approached within three to four feet of them with the knife in an attack posture."

    St. Louis City police shoot, kill knife-wielding suspect | FOX2now.com


    So there is some reason they could not have tried a stun gun before using lethal force? Seems like poor police training.





    //
    He had a knife in his hand, approaching police and was within 3 to 4 feet of police when they shot him. I would have shot him too. A stun gun is not reliable enough in that situation.

    Is there a reason that the guy couldn't have dropped the knife when the police repeatedly asked him to?

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    Re: Another fatal shooting in St. Louis

    No one is saying officers should not do their job...not even that they should not apply deadly force.

    The question is whether police officers use deadly force more than warranted. No one can argue that a person wielding a weapon is an aggressive manor is not a threat to life and property.

    The question is the increasing number of shooting around the country that are now being scrutinized for their correctness.

    An interesting statistic came out of the LAPD recently. Officers with using body cameras has 90% dropped in complaints against officers.

    This is a win-win. The officers have less false claims and Officers have their encounters with the public in film.

    Dallas Tx is investigating 10 recent officer shootings, is requesting two man patrols, two DAs, and that officers wear body cameras.

    The Feds are gonna pull back funding and giving of military hardware to local PDs.

    If anything good comes out of this whole freaking mess, maybe we all will take a closer look at the men and women we employ to keep our public safety.


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    Another fatal shooting in St. Louis

    Quote Originally Posted by 1750Texan View Post
    No one is saying officers should not do their job...not even that they should not apply deadly force.

    The question is whether police officers use deadly force more than warranted. No one can argue that a person wielding a weapon is an aggressive manor is not a threat to life and property.

    The question is the increasing number of shooting around the country that are now being scrutinized for their correctness.

    An interesting statistic came out of the LAPD recently. Officers with using body cameras has dropped complaints against officers.
    This is a win-win. The officers have less false claims and Officers have their encounters with the public in film.

    Dallas Tx is investigating 10 recent officer shootings, is requesting two man patrols, two DAs, and that officers wear body cameras.

    The Feds are gonna pull back funding and giving of military hardware to local PDs.

    If anything good comes out of this whole freaking mess, maybe we all will take a closer look at the men and women we employ to keep our public safety.
    I don't disagree with this, but this thread isn't an instance of police using unwarranted deadly force. If someone is within 3 to 4 feet of you about to attack you with a knife, you take out the threat. A taser/stun gun is not a reliable means to take out the threat in that situation. A taser/stun gun is really only good for subduing a non-life threatening, resisting suspect.
    Last edited by The Man; 08-19-14 at 06:03 PM.

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    Re: Another fatal shooting in St. Louis

    Dude comes at me with a knife, he gets shot.

    Where's the misunderstanding?
    Quote Originally Posted by calamity View Post
    Reports indicate that everyone knew he was hauling a bunch of guns up there. But, since you brought it up, there's something which should be illegal: guns that breakdown.

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    Re: Another fatal shooting in St. Louis

    Quote Originally Posted by The Man View Post
    He had a knife in his hand, approaching police and was within 3 to 4 feet of police when they shot him. I would have shot him too. A stun gun is not reliable enough in that situation.

    Is there a reason that the guy couldn't have dropped the knife when the police repeatedly asked him to?
    The reason the guy could not drop the knife was he was upset and belligerent.


    Is there a reason the policeman could not have drawn his taser when he was 10 feet from the man with the knife? The man with the knife had been brandishing the knife for several minutes, without hurting anyone.

    Why couldn't the policeman have backed up a couple step,s and used his taser? What taser training had he been given?


    Page 28 is about allowing training for private police security.

    http://www.slmpd.org/images/boardminutes.pdf


    I don't see the money for Tasers for Police officers, or money for taser training for Police Ofrficers.




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    Another fatal shooting in St. Louis

    Quote Originally Posted by Gladiator View Post
    The reason the guy could not drip the knife was he was upset and belligerent.


    Is there a reason the policeman could not have drawn his taser when he was 10 feet from the man with the knife? The man with the knife had been brandishing the knife for several minute3s, without hurting anyone.

    Why couldn't the policeman back up a couple steps and us his taser? What taser training had he been given?


    Page 28 is about allowing training for private police security.

    http://www.slmpd.org/images/boardminutes.pdf


    I don't see the money for Tasers for Police officers, or money for taser training for Police Ofrficers.




    //
    When they are within taser range, a taser is not a reliable means to stop an armed threat. Many people can withstand a taser shot like nothing happened.

    A guy comes at police with a knife, police shoot the guy and he dies. I don't see how that can possibly be misconstrued as the police are in the wrong here.

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    Re: Another fatal shooting in St. Louis

    Looks to me like a legitimate shooting. Given the evidence so far, I would have done the same as the officers. In fact, I have (something I don't normally discuss often if at all) - with more distance between us - a number of times. When an aggressor was approaching me with a weapon, and refused to follow orders to drop the weapon and retreat or lay down, I shot with deadly results. All this was in a military environment on a battlefield, but our cops face the same life threatening situations in our streets, and should be able to protect themselves. If a person hasn't been in that position, they cannot accurately understand the why's surrounding the actions taken.

    Again, looks like a legitimate shooting to me.
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    Re: Another fatal shooting in St. Louis

    Quote Originally Posted by Beaudreaux View Post
    Looks to me like a legitimate shooting. Given the evidence so far, I would have done the same as the officers. In fact, I have (something I don't normally discuss often if at all) - with more distance between us - a number of times. When an aggressor was approaching me with a weapon, and refused to follow orders to drop the weapon and retreat or lay down, I shot with deadly results. All this was in a military environment on a battlefield, but our cops face the same life threatening situations in our streets, and should be able to protect themselves. If a person hasn't been in that position, they cannot accurately understand the why's surrounding the actions taken.

    Again, looks like a legitimate shooting to me.
    Both are starting to look that way.

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    Re: Another fatal shooting in St. Louis

    Quote Originally Posted by Gladiator View Post
    The reason the guy could not drop the knife was he was upset and belligerent.


    Is there a reason the policeman could not have drawn his taser when he was 10 feet from the man with the knife? The man with the knife had been brandishing the knife for several minutes, without hurting anyone.

    Why couldn't the policeman have backed up a couple step,s and used his taser? What taser training had he been given?


    Page 28 is about allowing training for private police security.

    http://www.slmpd.org/images/boardminutes.pdf


    I don't see the money for Tasers for Police officers, or money for taser training for Police Ofrficers.




    //
    Tazers are not always effective.

    So, YOU have a highly agitated guy, brandishing a knife, refusing your commands, he may be on something ( you dont know ) and you have the choice of maybe pissing him off even more with a tazer and losing the 2 or 3 seconds needed to pull your pistol and stop the threat before he plunges that knife in your neck, or do you defend yourself properly ?

    Cops deserve to go home to their families every night too.
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    Re: Another fatal shooting in St. Louis

    Quote Originally Posted by The Man View Post
    When they are within taser range, a taser is not a reliable means to stop an armed threat. Many people can withstand a taser shot like nothing happened.

    A guy comes at police with a knife, police shoot the guy and he dies. I don't see how that can possibly be misconstrued as the police are in the wrong here.
    How long does it take to fire a taser? Maybe there should be a rule that any police officer should have his taser drawn when going to a knife report. A taser can go 16 Feet.

    Before a policeman kills someone, there should be a duty to at least attempt to taser the individual

    Many police are trained to go for the kill with little provocation. The training should be improved to include non-lethal attempts to subdue a belligerent individual.

    Some branches of Aiklido teach protecting oneself, while discharging anger from the individual. "Why are you upset?" "Why are you angry?" Get the guy talking, working out his anger or fears.


    When a policeman is asked, "Why did you use lethal force on this individual?"

    The Officer should be able to explain how he tried to use a taser at first.


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    Last edited by Gladiator; 08-19-14 at 06:37 PM.
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