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Thread: Another fatal shooting in St. Louis

  1. #171
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    Re: Another fatal shooting in St. Louis

    Quote Originally Posted by Lursa View Post
    And I'm not even interested in reading the rest of the wall of text you wrote.
    I realize it's beyond yiou.

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    Re: Another fatal shooting in St. Louis

    Quote Originally Posted by Lursa View Post
    They cant kill just to kill...
    Bull****.

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    Re: Another fatal shooting in St. Louis

    Quote Originally Posted by Kat Dorman View Post
    I realize it's beyond yiou.
    Quite the Internet ego there eh? Just because I cant be bothered to read your wall of text?

    I didnt realize how important your opinion was!

    Quote Originally Posted by Bucky View Post
    I have felt pain when I was in the womb. So when you say they are incapable of feeling pain, that is based on junk science.
    Quote Originally Posted by applejuicefool View Post
    A murderer putting a bullet through someone's brain is a medical procedure too.

  4. #174
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    Re: Another fatal shooting in St. Louis

    Quote Originally Posted by Lursa View Post
    But NO ONE else can make the split second decisions needed to save their own life except the cop.

    The rules, the laws are there. No one else has the right to tell the cop how he should judge those split seconds, but he still has the burden of proof on him to demonstrate that threat.

    Not everything can 'literally be a lethal threat.' There is distance, timing, ability to take cover, retreat, multiple reinforcements, etc.

    Did you even read the link for the Tueller Drill that I posted? Where multiple tests show that an attacker can reach and kill within 21 feet in 1.5 seconds? That is faster than someone can draw, aim, and shoot. Not to mention that it is uncommon for a single shot to stop an attacker instantly.

    This information is so verified and accepted that it is admissable in court.
    In this case the Tueller Drill is irrelevant as the weapon was already drawn and yes, anything can be a lethal threat. Anything. Of course, one has to maintain common sense and context because we are obviously not talking about using a flower as a weapon. There is a basic common sense aspect to this argument that is literally being ignored... and that is that the cops have other means of subduing a person and if they do not like it they should not be front line cops... period.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bucky View Post
    I have pooped in public, even in public neighborhoods.
    Quote Originally Posted by OldFatGuy View Post
    Usually a gag for wise mouthed insulting little girls. Then some good nylon rope so I can tie them up, toss them in the trunk of my car and forget about them.

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    Re: Another fatal shooting in St. Louis

    Quote Originally Posted by Montecresto View Post
    It doesn't have to be an either or.
    Exactly...

    Quote Originally Posted by Lursa View Post
    Tell that to the dead cops.

    No one else can make those split decisions for anyone in those situations. It's easy for you to not worry about the consequences for other people when you toss around 'feel good' regulations.
    Tell that to dead innocent people killed by cops shooting first when there is not a lethal threat, when shooting innocent children in their own homes during no-knock warrant searches or when less than lethal force could have and should have been used and the cop not only gets away with essentially a murder but often gets congratulations for it. Disgusting.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lursa View Post
    We are not talking about excess. Using lethal force to protect yourself from lethal threats is not excessive force.
    There are other options... why you condone police violence is beyond me...

    Quote Originally Posted by stonewall50 View Post
    Firefighters don't enter derelict structures and don't go after interior attacks when the fire has reached certain levels. Lifeguards don't have to enter the water when conditions risk their lives as well.

    Why do you expect something different from police?

    To be fair. Police should try all means. But sometimes the circumstance just doesn't work that way.
    I was a fire fighter and entered burning structures and put my life at risk... I was a life guard and put my life at risk saving others... I have saved many lives in my time so far and often my life was at risk if for no other reason than it is risky to attempt to save people in risky situations.

    We agree though as your last sentence sums up my position.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bucky View Post
    I have pooped in public, even in public neighborhoods.
    Quote Originally Posted by OldFatGuy View Post
    Usually a gag for wise mouthed insulting little girls. Then some good nylon rope so I can tie them up, toss them in the trunk of my car and forget about them.

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    Re: Another fatal shooting in St. Louis

    Quote Originally Posted by Bodhisattva View Post
    In this case the Tueller Drill is irrelevant as the weapon was already drawn and yes, anything can be a lethal threat. Anything. Of course, one has to maintain common sense and context because we are obviously not talking about using a flower as a weapon. There is a basic common sense aspect to this argument that is literally being ignored... and that is that the cops have other means of subduing a person and if they do not like it they should not be front line cops... period.
    And what do you know about being a cop?


    Oh, thats right, nothing.


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    Re: Another fatal shooting in St. Louis

    Quote Originally Posted by Caine View Post
    And what do you know about being a cop?


    Oh, thats right, nothing.

    [IMG]http://i.l
    Right, and as an educator I have people telling me how teachers are failing and how education should be run all the time... deal with it.

    ...all I know is that it does not take a cop to understand time, distance and violence any more than it takes a lawyer to prepare an affidavit.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bucky View Post
    I have pooped in public, even in public neighborhoods.
    Quote Originally Posted by OldFatGuy View Post
    Usually a gag for wise mouthed insulting little girls. Then some good nylon rope so I can tie them up, toss them in the trunk of my car and forget about them.

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    Re: Another fatal shooting in St. Louis

    Quote Originally Posted by Bodhisattva View Post
    Right, and as an educator I have people telling me how teachers are failing and how education should be run all the time... deal with it.

    ...all I know is that it does not take a cop to understand time, distance and violence any more than it takes a lawyer to prepare an affidavit.
    Have you been in a violent, life-threatening situation?

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    Re: Another fatal shooting in St. Louis

    Quote Originally Posted by Bodhisattva View Post

    There are other options... why you condone police violence is beyond me...
    I've told you many times that they can only use lethal force when there are no other options....unless it is to stop a fleeing suspect they believe is a threat to public safety.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bucky View Post
    I have felt pain when I was in the womb. So when you say they are incapable of feeling pain, that is based on junk science.
    Quote Originally Posted by applejuicefool View Post
    A murderer putting a bullet through someone's brain is a medical procedure too.

  10. #180
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    Re: Another fatal shooting in St. Louis

    Quote Originally Posted by Bodhisattva View Post
    In this case the Tueller Drill is irrelevant as the weapon was already drawn and yes, anything can be a lethal threat. Anything. Of course, one has to maintain common sense and context because we are obviously not talking about using a flower as a weapon. There is a basic common sense aspect to this argument that is literally being ignored... and that is that the cops have other means of subduing a person and if they do not like it they should not be front line cops... period.
    Quote Originally Posted by Lursa View Post
    So here's a very good article that explains the policies and law that guide the police's interactions with the public and their use of force.

    From a friend of mine. He is a cop and his wife is a detective in rural WA St. Not liberals I am. And dang it if we arent friends anyway.
    How cops can help citizens better understand police use of force

    From the article:

    Force Options
    When an officer meets resistance, officers are trained to use a level of force justified by the specific threat, or resistance they are presented with. For example, if a person pulls away from an officer making an arrest and snaps, “Don’t you touch me,” the officer can choose to apply a compliance hold to that person.

    These holds are designed to convince the person to comply.
    When a suspect is actively resisting, the officer can also choose to disengage and deploy a TASER or utilize pepper spray to overcome that resistance.

    It might surprise some people to discover that when a suspect strikes an officer, or even acts as if he or she is about to strike an officer, that officer can legally deliver impacts with what we call personal body weapons.

    Officers can punch, kick, or strike with elbows and/or knees to defend themselves and/or make an arrest.

    Officers can also choose to deliver baton impacts to targeted areas on the body. Officers can even strike a suspect more than once if once does not stop the suspect’s threat. If a suspect tries to hit an officer, don’t be surprised when that officer hits back.

    Use of Deadly Force
    I’ve never heard an officer say at the beginning of a shift, “I hope I get to shoot someone today.”

    While the vast majority of officers never fire their weapons in the line of duty, some have to. When an officer is faced with the threat of death or great bodily injury — or someone they are sworn to protect is faced with that same imminent threat — an officer is justified in using deadly force.

    There are three generally held misconceptions about deadly force that continually arise and need to be addressed:

    1. An officer can shoot an unarmed man under certain conditions.

    An officer may have to use deadly force on an unarmed man who is larger, stronger, and/or attempting to disarm the officer, for example. In the case of a suspect, who is battering an officer to the point that he or she may suffer death or great bodily harm, the use of deadly force is defensible. Police officers do not have to sustain a severe beating in the line of duty.

    Other factors that could justify an officer’s choice to utilize deadly force are the extent of that officer’s injury, exhaustion, or the number of assaultive adversaries the officer is confronted with.

    2. An officer can, in certain conditions, shoot someone in the back.

    You see if a suspect is fleeing and their escape presents an imminent threat of death or great bodily harm to the community at large, the use of deadly force can be justified. On some occasions a round might enter through the back, because of the dynamics of the circumstance.

    3. Officers are not — and never will be — trained to shoot to wound or shoot weapons out of subjects’ hands.

    These are not realistic options. Handguns are not accurate enough to deliberately attempt such things when lives are on the line.
    ....................
    Quote Originally Posted by Bucky View Post
    I have felt pain when I was in the womb. So when you say they are incapable of feeling pain, that is based on junk science.
    Quote Originally Posted by applejuicefool View Post
    A murderer putting a bullet through someone's brain is a medical procedure too.

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