Page 10 of 21 FirstFirst ... 8910111220 ... LastLast
Results 91 to 100 of 208

Thread: Another fatal shooting in St. Louis

  1. #91
    Sage
    Lursa's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Location
    Outside Seattle
    Last Seen
    Today @ 04:45 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Centrist
    Posts
    29,736

    Re: Another fatal shooting in St. Louis

    Quote Originally Posted by Gladiator View Post
    Law enforcement injuries reduced 86% Arrestee injuries reduced 79%


    //
    those statistics are for capturing and restraining criminals....not in self-defensive (lethal threat) situations.

    And yes, it is safer for both than hitting them with fists, batons, etc. Less harm.

    Tasers are not about stopping a lethal threat however...they are about restraint.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bucky View Post
    I have felt pain when I was in the womb. So when you say they are incapable of feeling pain, that is based on junk science.
    Quote Originally Posted by applejuicefool View Post
    A murderer putting a bullet through someone's brain is a medical procedure too.

  2. #92
    Sage
    Lursa's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Location
    Outside Seattle
    Last Seen
    Today @ 04:45 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Centrist
    Posts
    29,736

    Re: Another fatal shooting in St. Louis

    Quote Originally Posted by Bodhisattva View Post
    Red Herring. You are dodging the point... it is their job to use non-lethal means whenever they can. That is the point. They didn't even try here...

    They did and nobody was shoving cameras anywhere... How far do you have to get back though? The cop was sending them to BFE 100 meters back.

    It's only their job to use non-lethal measures if there isnt a lethal threat present. By no means are they obligated to use non-lethal methods if they are facing a lethal threat. *Everyone* is allowed to self-defense with the *appropriate level* of force. And if the threat is lethal force, everyone, including cops, has the right to use commensurate force. Their job doesnt override their right to life.

    They arent paid enough to risk their lives on 'maybe.' THey have families to go home to too.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bucky View Post
    I have felt pain when I was in the womb. So when you say they are incapable of feeling pain, that is based on junk science.
    Quote Originally Posted by applejuicefool View Post
    A murderer putting a bullet through someone's brain is a medical procedure too.

  3. #93
    Sage
    Bodhisattva's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    New Zealand
    Last Seen
    Today @ 04:18 AM
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    63,816

    Re: Another fatal shooting in St. Louis

    Quote Originally Posted by Lursa View Post
    It's only their job to use non-lethal measures if there isnt a lethal threat present. By no means are they obligated to use non-lethal methods if they are facing a lethal threat. *Everyone* is allowed to self-defense with the *appropriate level* of force. And if the threat is lethal force, everyone, including cops, has the right to use commensurate force. Their job doesnt override their right to life.

    They arent paid enough to risk their lives on 'maybe.' THey have families to go home to too.
    Police are not like "everyone" else... they have night sticks, batons, pepper spray and tazers... I feel that they are obligated to use non-lethal measures first in the instances of knives and such and I don't care if they are not paid enough... it is still their job. Don't be a cop if you don't like the risk. A life guard at a busy beach risks their lives, so do fire fighters and other jobs that don't make much. I did both of those by the way and when I went into a burning house, literally, or into huge surf to rescue a person I risked my life. Cops have a gun and seem to feel that they are special and that they are at more risk then "everybody"... they are not.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bucky View Post
    I have pooped in public, even in public neighborhoods.
    Quote Originally Posted by Absentglare View Post
    You can successfully wipe your ass with toilet paper, that doesn't mean that you should.

  4. #94
    Sage
    Lursa's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Location
    Outside Seattle
    Last Seen
    Today @ 04:45 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Centrist
    Posts
    29,736

    Re: Another fatal shooting in St. Louis

    Quote Originally Posted by Bodhisattva View Post
    Police are not like "everyone" else... they have night sticks, batons, pepper spray and tazers... I feel that they are obligated to use non-lethal measures first in the instances of knives and such and I don't care if they are not paid enough... it is still their job. Don't be a cop if you don't like the risk. A life guard at a busy beach risks their lives, so do fire fighters and other jobs that don't make much. I did both of those by the way and when I went into a burning house, literally, or into huge surf to rescue a person I risked my life. Cops have a gun and seem to feel that they are special and that they are at more risk then "everybody"... they are not.
    A knife kills, so does shove or punch to the head. The police's job does not supersede their right to life.

    Anytime an attacker can get hold of you, they have a chance of killing you, disabling you, taking your gun, etc. You never ever take that chance and certainly no one, esp. not an employer, has the right to ask you to ask you to intentionally do so.

    They are already risking their lives, it's disappointing that you dont seem to recognize that. Anytime they go into a house or a store or a car stop or a situation where they have been called, they can be ambushed.

    Again: Tueller Drill, researched and admissible in court....an attacker can reach and kill a cop/person from 21 feet in 1.5 seconds....that is before the cop can draw, aim, and fire (also timed).

    Tueller Drill - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    (cops learn this in training, btw)
    Quote Originally Posted by Bucky View Post
    I have felt pain when I was in the womb. So when you say they are incapable of feeling pain, that is based on junk science.
    Quote Originally Posted by applejuicefool View Post
    A murderer putting a bullet through someone's brain is a medical procedure too.

  5. #95
    Sage
    Bodhisattva's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    New Zealand
    Last Seen
    Today @ 04:18 AM
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    63,816

    Re: Another fatal shooting in St. Louis

    Quote Originally Posted by Lursa View Post
    A knife kills, so does shove or punch to the head. The police's job does not supersede their right to life.

    Anytime an attacker can get hold of you, they have a chance of killing you, disabling you, taking your gun, etc. You never ever take that chance and certainly no one, esp. not an employer, has the right to ask you to ask you to intentionally do so.

    They are already risking their lives, it's disappointing that you dont seem to recognize that. Anytime they go into a house or a store or a car stop or a situation where they have been called, they can be ambushed.

    Again: Tueller Drill, researched and admissible in court....an attacker can reach and kill a cop/person from 21 feet in 1.5 seconds....that is before the cop can draw, aim, and fire (also timed).

    Tueller Drill - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    (cops learn this in training, btw)
    I just said that they are risking their lives and that so do others... I just said that.

    ...and as to the rest... THAT IS WHY THEY HAVE NIGHT STICKS, PEPPER SPRAY AND TASERS.

    What is disappointing is seeing people IGNORE that fact and justify deadly force when there are other options.

    Cops that do what many of these cops do should be fired and/or charged with a crime.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bucky View Post
    I have pooped in public, even in public neighborhoods.
    Quote Originally Posted by Absentglare View Post
    You can successfully wipe your ass with toilet paper, that doesn't mean that you should.

  6. #96
    Sage
    Lursa's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Location
    Outside Seattle
    Last Seen
    Today @ 04:45 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Centrist
    Posts
    29,736

    Re: Another fatal shooting in St. Louis

    Quote Originally Posted by Bodhisattva View Post
    I just said that they are risking their lives and that so do others... I just said that.

    ...and as to the rest... THAT IS WHY THEY HAVE NIGHT STICKS, PEPPER SPRAY AND TASERS.

    What is disappointing is seeing people IGNORE that fact and justify deadly force when there are other options.

    Cops that do what many of these cops do should be fired and/or charged with a crime.
    Well it sounded like you qualified it, like it wasnt 'enough.' No one forces firemen or anyone else to do those jobs and forcing guidelines on cops that demand they cant use lethal force unless they try all other alternatives first is not a decision for anyone else to make.

    Only the person in the situation can determine the reality of the lethality of the threat. And we have science and experience that demonstrate it. Like Tueller.

    I've posted this twice already on this subject: Near here in Bellevue, WA, several yrs ago now, a veteran cop was killed by a crazy naked guy. The naked buy got his gun and killed him. Yes, the cop made some mistakes...and one of them was letting that naked guy get within striking distance.

    If that cop had even drawn his gun against a naked guy, much less shot him, he would have been crucified by the media. Just destroyed.

    These crazy, drugged up, or amped on adreneline people walk right thru tasers and pepper spray sometimes. The cop would have been crucified if he had subdued him with his baton!

    Edit: see note in next post.
    Last edited by Lursa; 08-28-14 at 06:54 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bucky View Post
    I have felt pain when I was in the womb. So when you say they are incapable of feeling pain, that is based on junk science.
    Quote Originally Posted by applejuicefool View Post
    A murderer putting a bullet through someone's brain is a medical procedure too.

  7. #97
    Sage
    Lursa's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Location
    Outside Seattle
    Last Seen
    Today @ 04:45 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Centrist
    Posts
    29,736

    Re: Another fatal shooting in St. Louis

    Note: the law and police procedure already demand that lethal force can only be used to stop a lethal threat...or gross bodily harm/prevention of a forcible felony. For some depts, they can also use it to stop a fleeing suspect if they believe he is a threat to public safety.

    How much more restrictive does it need to be?
    Quote Originally Posted by Bucky View Post
    I have felt pain when I was in the womb. So when you say they are incapable of feeling pain, that is based on junk science.
    Quote Originally Posted by applejuicefool View Post
    A murderer putting a bullet through someone's brain is a medical procedure too.

  8. #98
    Sage
    Bodhisattva's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    New Zealand
    Last Seen
    Today @ 04:18 AM
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    63,816

    Re: Another fatal shooting in St. Louis

    Quote Originally Posted by Lursa View Post
    Well it sounded like you qualified it, like it wasnt 'enough.' No one forces firemen or anyone else to do those jobs and forcing guidelines on cops that demand they cant use lethal force unless they try all other alternatives first is not a decision for anyone else to make.

    Only the person in the situation can determine the reality of the lethality of the threat. And we have science and experience that demonstrate it. Like Tueller.

    I've posted this twice already on this subject: Near here in Bellevue, WA, several yrs ago now, a veteran cop was killed by a crazy naked guy. The naked buy got his gun and killed him. Yes, the cop made some mistakes...and one of them was letting that naked guy get within striking distance.

    If that cop had even drawn his gun against a naked guy, much less shot him, he would have been crucified by the media. Just destroyed.

    These crazy, drugged up, or amped on adreneline people walk right thru tasers and pepper spray sometimes. The cop would have been crucified if he had subdued him with his baton!

    Edit: see note in next post.
    I have always said that instead of all cops pulling their guns first and as the only options at least one should attempt to use a non-lethal weapon. This kid with the knife had two cops... both did not need to draw pistols and open fire... one should have, not could have but SHOULD HAVE attempted to use a taser first.

    Nobody forces a cop to be a cop either... they chose the job and the job should demand non-lethal force to be attempted prior to lethal force.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bucky View Post
    I have pooped in public, even in public neighborhoods.
    Quote Originally Posted by Absentglare View Post
    You can successfully wipe your ass with toilet paper, that doesn't mean that you should.

  9. #99
    Sage
    Caine's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Last Seen
    10-05-17 @ 01:21 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    23,336

    Re: Another fatal shooting in St. Louis

    Quote Originally Posted by Bodhisattva View Post

    Nobody forces a cop to be a cop either... they chose the job and the job should demand non-lethal force to be attempted prior to lethal force.
    Thats dumb.

    "Hey that dude has an AK-47 shootin' at us... we need to spray him with pepper spray from 100 feet first......"


  10. #100
    Sage
    Bodhisattva's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    New Zealand
    Last Seen
    Today @ 04:18 AM
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    63,816

    Re: Another fatal shooting in St. Louis

    Quote Originally Posted by Caine View Post
    Thats dumb.

    "Hey that dude has an AK-47 shootin' at us... we need to spray him with pepper spray from 100 feet first......"

    We have been talking about guys with knives or that do not comply... not ISIS on a terror attack.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bucky View Post
    I have pooped in public, even in public neighborhoods.
    Quote Originally Posted by Absentglare View Post
    You can successfully wipe your ass with toilet paper, that doesn't mean that you should.

Page 10 of 21 FirstFirst ... 8910111220 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •