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Thread: U.S. court upholds FERC rules on electric grid planning

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    Re: U.S. court upholds FERC rules on electric grid planning

    Quote Originally Posted by ocean515 View Post
    Probably best to maintain a supply of what the world requires to keep working at this point in time, than let supplies disappear before a global conversion to alternatives is complete.
    I would agree if it was not for the fact that the energy companies are raking in massive profits on top of that. Take away their subsidies and tax breaks, and they still would have insane profits...
    PeteEU

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    Re: U.S. court upholds FERC rules on electric grid planning

    Quote Originally Posted by PeteEU View Post
    I would agree if it was not for the fact that the energy companies are raking in massive profits on top of that. Take away their subsidies and tax breaks, and they still would have insane profits...
    What would you do as a company, if your business model is being regulated out of existence? Plan for the future?

    Probably a good idea, especially when so many pension funds, especially public employee pension funds, are tied to the profits your company generates.

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    Re: U.S. court upholds FERC rules on electric grid planning

    Quote Originally Posted by ocean515 View Post
    Well, what you seem to want to focus on is meaningless in the long term. Thankfully smarter people are looking at the issue so that all can benefit. One can only hope that enviros with blinders on are completely ignored.
    What an obtuse and meaningless response. Who are these "smarter people"? Lobbyists?
    "You're the only person that decides how far you'll go and what you're capable of." - Ben Saunders (Explorer and Endurance Athlete)

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    Re: U.S. court upholds FERC rules on electric grid planning

    Quote Originally Posted by SouthernDemocrat View Post
    What an obtuse and meaningless response. Who are these "smarter people"? Lobbyists?
    Engineers and scientists. They are working on integration and application.

    As you're proving, others are more concerned with ideology and agenda. Those tend to be poor conductors of energy, no matter the source.

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    Re: U.S. court upholds FERC rules on electric grid planning

    Quote Originally Posted by ocean515 View Post
    Engineers and scientists. They are working on integration and application.

    As you're proving, others are more concerned with ideology and agenda. Those tend to be poor conductors of energy, no matter the source.
    So what is wrong with federal regulators requiring the engineers and scientists with KCPL coordinate with Ameren Electric when working on large scale grid projects?
    "You're the only person that decides how far you'll go and what you're capable of." - Ben Saunders (Explorer and Endurance Athlete)

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    Re: U.S. court upholds FERC rules on electric grid planning

    Quote Originally Posted by SouthernDemocrat View Post
    So what is wrong with federal regulators requiring the engineers and scientists with KCPL coordinate with Ameren Electric when working on large scale grid projects?
    Nothing at all.

    The gross and obnoxious reaction by the usual suspects on this thread came from a simple question directed to someone who mentioned they had been following the case. Assuming them to be informed, and seeing the topic included electric grid planning, I asked if there were any components related to grid updating/expansion/maintenance in the FERC program.

    This simple question unleashed a torrent of hyper-partisan regurgitation that has been joined into by others.

    Really pointless, but I suppose exposing the unreasonable reactionary ignorance of those pushing an agenda is a good thing. Perhaps you didn't mean to add to the evidence.

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    Re: U.S. court upholds FERC rules on electric grid planning

    Quote Originally Posted by PeteEU View Post
    You been reading too many right wing blogs funded by the oil and coal industry..



    Again miss-information from the usual sources.

    First of all taxes. Are they included in or not in the numbers. Now on Germany, almost 50% of the consumer price is taxes as of 2013. So when you say German electricity prices are 300% higher than US.. do those prices include taxes? How much taxes do US consumers pay on their electricity?

    According to Eurostat

    Electricity and natural gas price statistics - Statistics Explained

    Germans paid 29,4 euro cents per kWh.
    Americans pay differently depending on where they live, but the average is 12.84 US cents per kWh according to the Department of Energy.

    Now the currency conversion comes into it.

    Germans pay 39 cents per kWh vs Americans 12.8 cents per kWH. Big difference no? Well no, because the German taxes account for almost 50% of the consumer price. Now I suspect there are taxes on electricity in the US too, but that is very dependent on what state we are talking about so an actual comparison is hard to do, but in no way are the taxes 50% of the price or even close to that. So if we take 50% of the german price we get 20 cents.. and lets be large and take off 3 cents.. that is at best 100% more, not 300% more.

    And then there is the other factor.. efficiency and actual consumption. All the statistics out there show that the US, uses almost double the amount per capita than that of Germany.. and dont tell me that the US is more "industrialized" than Germany..

    So the Germans might pay more for electricity, but they also consume half that of the US, which means the actual cost is actually about the same... go figure!

    At the end of the day this has to do with the future not here and now. Germany, like many European countries have invested in the future, just as they invested in more fuel efficient cars 30 years ago. The latter paid off big time when oil hit 150 dollars a barrel and Americans were screaming in pain over the price of petrol.

    The only problem is of course the taxes.. energy is a big tax generator for most European countries, and the less energy we use or generate ourselves, the less we buy and hence the less we pay in taxes.. and that factor is holding back European countries.. not price, not technology, but having to deal with a smaller tax income.

    I noticed you left out the German Finance Minister admitting to Germany's " green revolution " being on the verge of Total failure ?

    And the fact that Germany is building NEW Coal fired plants as fast a possible to account for their stupidity.


    So " alternative energy works " IF you burn huge amounts of Coal and subsidize the hell out of via attacking the discretionary income of your middle and lower class citizens.

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    Re: U.S. court upholds FERC rules on electric grid planning

    Quote Originally Posted by PeteEU View Post
    I would agree if it was not for the fact that the energy companies are raking in massive profits on top of that. Take away their subsidies and tax breaks, and they still would have insane profits...

    Name ONE subsidy that is being extended out to ANY Oil Company in America.

    I want the specific outlay of funds from the Treasury in dollar amounts

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    Re: U.S. court upholds FERC rules on electric grid planning

    Quote Originally Posted by Fenton View Post
    Name ONE subsidy that is being extended out to ANY Oil Company in America.

    I want the specific outlay of funds from the Treasury in dollar amounts
    Depletion.
    Never let your sense of morals get in the way of doing what's right.
    Isaac Asimov

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    Re: U.S. court upholds FERC rules on electric grid planning

    Quote Originally Posted by Fenton View Post
    I noticed you left out the German Finance Minister admitting to Germany's " green revolution " being on the verge of Total failure ?
    That is not what he said. But nice try.

    And the fact that Germany is building NEW Coal fired plants as fast a possible to account for their stupidity.
    And there is a reason for that... but I guess you dont know that reason..

    So " alternative energy works " IF you burn huge amounts of Coal and subsidize the hell out of via attacking the discretionary income of your middle and lower class citizens.
    Again you are reading the coal and oil industries talking points without taking a critical look at them.
    PeteEU

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