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Thread: Private autopsy reportedly reveals Ferguson teen shot six times;police[W:302,693:992]

  1. #61
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    Re: Private autopsy reportedly reveals Ferguson teen shot six times;police use more t

    Quote Originally Posted by ttwtt78640 View Post
    We have evidence that Brown was not shot in the back and no evidence that he was "surrendering" at the time of the shooting.
    That's true. We know a few things. We need to know more before drawing conclusions. There is important forensic data we don't have.

    Quote Originally Posted by jmotivator View Post
    The only thing conclusive is that the "witness" report that he was shot in the back with his hands up is a lie.
    At the very least, you can say that the account of being shot as he fled is objectively false, yes. That's the thing about eyewitness reports, though, sometimes the eye sees what it sees... without it matching up with reality very well. This is why witnesses are cross examined on their statements.

    Quote Originally Posted by jmotivator View Post
    In the mean time, let's loot and pillage Ferguson...
    Actually, while I abhor much of the police response here, part of what I abhor is their failure to protect business owners from this random destruction. As soon as protests turn to riots and looting, by all means, tear gas away and arrest those folks.

    I'm not unreasonably "**** the police" here, nor do I approve of their handling of this situation. I think this situation is godawful and the blame is hardly limited to any one group.

    SPECIFICALLY ABOUT BROWN'S SHOOTING, though, we need more evidence.

    Currently, the info we have is not enough to be conclusive, though CNN is currently noting that almost everyone commenting on the death online (and elsewhere) is using this autopsy report - which is explicitly inconclusive per the ME - and stating it confirms their suspicions.

    Well, it doesn't. It doesn't confirm much aside from 6 shots, from the front, headshot was the kill shot, he was hit on the top of the head.

    So either he was shot from above or he had his head bent down towards Wilson. If he were charging Wilson, that would be consistent with the known headshot.
    Last edited by JayDubya; 08-18-14 at 11:35 AM.

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    Re: Private autopsy reportedly reveals Ferguson teen shot six times;police use more t

    Quote Originally Posted by Tettsuo View Post
    You guys cleared missed an important component to this shooting.



    If Brown was in the process of fighting for the officers gun, would that not result in some gunpowder residue?
    The quote you made addresses this.

    Brown was wearing a shirt and a cap. Biden did not have these items, just Brown's remains. We do not know anything about any other element of forensic evidence at this time, including gunshot residue or dna.


    I'm not a CSI guy, but online I read that GSR testing is not foolproof - sometimes people shoot themselves in the head - obviously point-blank range - and testing fails to confirm GSR.
    Last edited by JayDubya; 08-18-14 at 11:34 AM.

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    Re: Private autopsy reportedly reveals Ferguson teen shot six times;police use more t

    Quote Originally Posted by Your Star View Post
    You don't get shot in the palm of the hand like Brown did unless you're putting your hands up to surrender.
    Quote Originally Posted by Lutherf View Post
    Or if you're reaching for a gun.

    The facts aren't in yet.
    ..or running at someone with your hands out-stretched to grab them...


    Two examples of extremes that are BOTH most likely flawed due to an inordinate effort to make the other guy look bad..
    Our nation has not always lived up to its ideals, yet those ideals have never ceased to guide us. They expose our flaws, and lead us to mend them. We are the beneficiaries of the work of the generations before us and it is each generation's responsibility to continue that work. - Laura Bush

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    Re: Private autopsy reportedly reveals Ferguson teen shot six times;police use more t

    Quote Originally Posted by Aunt Spiker View Post
    lol

    Yeah - at this moment I've heard, from video interviews of supposed witnesses, 3 different accounts of how he was killed. I wouldn't be surprised if there was 1 or 2 more versions out there.

    When 'witnesses' want to stir the pot with lies they need to commune first and get their stories straight.
    Witnesses aren't necessarily lying. There's been a lot of research into eye witness accounts of aviation accidents and the basic finding has been that people often see what they think they should be seeing and not what's really happening. There are a number of cases of eye witness accounts of planes on fire before crashing where there was no evidence of pre crash fires found. People, who have no experience with plane crashes aside from seeing them in movies, were essentially conditioned to believe that fires accompanied plane crashes and when they reconstructed the events afterwards they remembered a fire where none existed.

    Same thing with accounts of seeing engines and wings fall off when the plane was essentially intact until impact.

    Or half the witnesses swearing the plane was in a right turn and the other half in a left.

    These people weren't lying. They honestly believed what they claimed to see.
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    Re: Private autopsy reportedly reveals Ferguson teen shot six times;police use more t

    Quote Originally Posted by Your Star View Post
    You don't get shot in the palm of the hand like Brown did unless you're putting your hands up to surrender.
    Quote Originally Posted by Your Star View Post
    The fact that you think that him charging the officer is a fact just shows your incredible bias.
    The fact that you accept that he was surrendering shows your incredible bias. How are you any different??
    Our nation has not always lived up to its ideals, yet those ideals have never ceased to guide us. They expose our flaws, and lead us to mend them. We are the beneficiaries of the work of the generations before us and it is each generation's responsibility to continue that work. - Laura Bush

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    Re: Private autopsy reportedly reveals Ferguson teen shot six times;police use more t

    Quote Originally Posted by JayDubya View Post
    That's true. We know a few things. We need to know more before drawing conclusions. There is important forensic data we don't have.
    Yes, the toxicology results should be interesting.

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    Re: Private autopsy reportedly reveals Ferguson teen shot six times;police use more t

    The thing is, I currently think it probably is ONE of those extremes.

    However, there is no way to determine which one at this point.

    Yes, if I were running at someone to grab them, say tackle them, I would have my head down and my arms out, because that's what they teach us to do. Now, Brown didn't play football despite his size, but that method of fighting isn't exactly a complex martial art, difficult to pick up. Run at guy, grab.

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    Re: Private autopsy reportedly reveals Ferguson teen shot six times;police use more t

    Quote Originally Posted by Taylor View Post
    Yes, the toxicology results should be interesting.
    Maybe.

    But then again, maybe not.

    Some people are saying he must have been on some serious drugs to take a hit like that and keep on going (IF that "Brown charged Wilson" story is accurate at all, and we don't know).

    But possibly not. I mean, if he was shot in the arm first, Wilson's handgun wouldn't necessarily have the stopping power to put Brown down were he charging at him. A headshot would do that though.

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    Re: Private autopsy reportedly reveals Ferguson teen shot six times;police use more t

    Quote Originally Posted by JayDubya View Post
    Maybe.

    But then again, maybe not.

    Some people are saying he must have been on some serious drugs to take a hit like that and keep on going (IF that "Brown charged Wilson" story is accurate at all, and we don't know).

    But possibly not. I mean, if he was shot in the arm first, Wilson's handgun wouldn't necessarily have the stopping power to put Brown down were he charging at him. A headshot would do that though.
    I think it's the series of really stupid decisions that suggests he was likely impaired. Especially if we accept his family's assertion that he was a very gentle person.

    People who are thinking clearly don't rob a store and risk jail time for a few cigars, then casually walk home down the middle of the road, a tell a cop to buzz off when all he does is tell you to get on the sidewalk.

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    Re: Private autopsy reportedly reveals Ferguson teen shot six times;police use more t

    Quote Originally Posted by CanadaJohn View Post
    It's an excellent point, presuming the body wasn't altered between the time the incident occurred and the time Baden had access to the body. I understand the State conducted its official autopsy prior to Baden being given access to the body. Are we certain the body wasn't "cleaned" prior to Baden getting access? We'll know if Baden's observations are accurate when we see the initial autopsy conducted by the State.

    You note Baden said it would have to be confirmed by examination of the clothing - seems to me he's saying it's not definitively determined.
    If the state "cleaned" the body before it would be passed along for independent autopsy, that would be tampering, and a big issue at trial.
    Killing one person is murder, killing 100,000 is foreign policy

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