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Private autopsy reportedly reveals Ferguson teen shot six times;police[W:302,693:992]

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Re: Private autopsy reportedly reveals Ferguson teen shot six times;police use more t

lol

Yeah - at this moment I've heard, from video interviews of supposed witnesses, 3 different accounts of how he was killed. I wouldn't be surprised if there was 1 or 2 more versions out there.

When 'witnesses' want to stir the pot with lies they need to commune first and get their stories straight. :roll:

Been a trend in law recently to not trust witness statements for that exact reason. Not to mention...memory is not rock solid reliable. People don't remember the details well.
 
Re: Private autopsy reportedly reveals Ferguson teen shot six times;police use more t

Private autopsy reportedly reveals Ferguson teen shot six times; police use more tear gas on protesters | Fox News

So, the pig just basically was enraged that he got his ass whooped, and decided to empty his pistol into someone kneeling on the ground with his hands in the air in surrender.

Kind of like a gangland murder.

I read "So, the pig" and then totally ignored the balance. If you want to be taken seriously and have a discussion on an adult and civilized basis, you don't start out with "So, the pig".

The only fitting response to "So, the pig" is "Nigger had it coming".
 
Re: Private autopsy reportedly reveals Ferguson teen shot six times;police use more t

You don't get shot in the palm of the hand like Brown did unless you're putting your hands up to surrender.

There is a report that the officer's gun was discharged inside the police car, reportedly as a result of a struggle between the officer and Brown for control of the gun. Is it just possible that Brown was shot in the palm of his hand while trying to take control of the gun, inside the police car? Do you have evidence that Brown's palm was shot while he was supposedly surrendering? Do you have evidence of the sequence of injuries to Brown?
 
Re: Private autopsy reportedly reveals Ferguson teen shot six times;police use more t

You guys cleared missed an important component to this shooting.

Dr. Baden said there was no residue of gunpowder on the body, indicating the shots weren't necessarily taken at close range, but that would have to be confirmed by an examination of Mr. Brown's clothing.

There were no wounds indicative of blows from some type of physical altercation, Dr. Baden said.

If Brown was in the process of fighting for the officers gun, would that not result in some gunpowder residue?
 
Re: Private autopsy reportedly reveals Ferguson teen shot six times;police use more t

You guys cleared missed an important component to this shooting.



If Brown was in the process of fighting for the officers gun, would that not result in some gunpowder residue?

Depends on the location of the shot I suppose. I am not an expert. But it also seems to me that if he was executed there would be gunpowder residue too right?

The evidence of a physical altercation would be slight if brown was fighting with Wilson inside the car. I mean it isn't like you can get a good windup for a punch or anything like that.
 
Re: Private autopsy reportedly reveals Ferguson teen shot six times;police use more t

You guys cleared missed an important component to this shooting.



If Brown was in the process of fighting for the officers gun, would that not result in some gunpowder residue?

It's an excellent point, presuming the body wasn't altered between the time the incident occurred and the time Baden had access to the body. I understand the State conducted its official autopsy prior to Baden being given access to the body. Are we certain the body wasn't "cleaned" prior to Baden getting access? We'll know if Baden's observations are accurate when we see the initial autopsy conducted by the State.

You note Baden said it would have to be confirmed by examination of the clothing - seems to me he's saying it's not definitively determined.
 
Re: Private autopsy reportedly reveals Ferguson teen shot six times;police use more t

The only thing conclusive is that the "witness" report that he was shot in the back with his hands up is a lie.
Indeed. This should put to rest the utterly absurd account provided by his buddy.
 
Re: Private autopsy reportedly reveals Ferguson teen shot six times;police use more t

It is HIGHLY different when a police officer, one of the people we charge to uphold the law, guns down an unarmed and surrendering man. That is why this is causing so much attention.
Did the officer execute him when he was kneeling down and surrendering?
 
Re: Private autopsy reportedly reveals Ferguson teen shot six times;police use more t

You don't get shot in the palm of the hand like Brown did unless you're putting your hands up to surrender.

That's not necessarily true. It is human instinct usually to hold their hand up to protect them from an object even if the object still will kill them. It could very well be he charged the officer, officer had gun drawn and the person put up their hand palm out.
 
Re: Private autopsy reportedly reveals Ferguson teen shot six times;police use more t

We have evidence that Brown was not shot in the back and no evidence that he was "surrendering" at the time of the shooting.

BS! He was shot in the hand and the head. Just because he wasn't shot in the back means he was backing away, not running away.
 
Re: Private autopsy reportedly reveals Ferguson teen shot six times;police use more t

We have evidence that Brown was not shot in the back and no evidence that he was "surrendering" at the time of the shooting.

That's true. We know a few things. We need to know more before drawing conclusions. There is important forensic data we don't have.

The only thing conclusive is that the "witness" report that he was shot in the back with his hands up is a lie.

At the very least, you can say that the account of being shot as he fled is objectively false, yes. That's the thing about eyewitness reports, though, sometimes the eye sees what it sees... without it matching up with reality very well. This is why witnesses are cross examined on their statements.

In the mean time, let's loot and pillage Ferguson...

Actually, while I abhor much of the police response here, part of what I abhor is their failure to protect business owners from this random destruction. As soon as protests turn to riots and looting, by all means, tear gas away and arrest those folks.

I'm not unreasonably "**** the police" here, nor do I approve of their handling of this situation. I think this situation is godawful and the blame is hardly limited to any one group.

SPECIFICALLY ABOUT BROWN'S SHOOTING, though, we need more evidence.

Currently, the info we have is not enough to be conclusive, though CNN is currently noting that almost everyone commenting on the death online (and elsewhere) is using this autopsy report - which is explicitly inconclusive per the ME - and stating it confirms their suspicions.

Well, it doesn't. It doesn't confirm much aside from 6 shots, from the front, headshot was the kill shot, he was hit on the top of the head.

So either he was shot from above or he had his head bent down towards Wilson. If he were charging Wilson, that would be consistent with the known headshot.
 
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Re: Private autopsy reportedly reveals Ferguson teen shot six times;police use more t

You guys cleared missed an important component to this shooting.



If Brown was in the process of fighting for the officers gun, would that not result in some gunpowder residue?

The quote you made addresses this.

Brown was wearing a shirt and a cap. Biden did not have these items, just Brown's remains. We do not know anything about any other element of forensic evidence at this time, including gunshot residue or dna.


I'm not a CSI guy, but online I read that GSR testing is not foolproof - sometimes people shoot themselves in the head - obviously point-blank range - and testing fails to confirm GSR.
 
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Re: Private autopsy reportedly reveals Ferguson teen shot six times;police use more t

You don't get shot in the palm of the hand like Brown did unless you're putting your hands up to surrender.

Or if you're reaching for a gun.

The facts aren't in yet.

..or running at someone with your hands out-stretched to grab them...


Two examples of extremes that are BOTH most likely flawed due to an inordinate effort to make the other guy look bad..
 
Re: Private autopsy reportedly reveals Ferguson teen shot six times;police use more t

lol

Yeah - at this moment I've heard, from video interviews of supposed witnesses, 3 different accounts of how he was killed. I wouldn't be surprised if there was 1 or 2 more versions out there.

When 'witnesses' want to stir the pot with lies they need to commune first and get their stories straight. :roll:

Witnesses aren't necessarily lying. There's been a lot of research into eye witness accounts of aviation accidents and the basic finding has been that people often see what they think they should be seeing and not what's really happening. There are a number of cases of eye witness accounts of planes on fire before crashing where there was no evidence of pre crash fires found. People, who have no experience with plane crashes aside from seeing them in movies, were essentially conditioned to believe that fires accompanied plane crashes and when they reconstructed the events afterwards they remembered a fire where none existed.

Same thing with accounts of seeing engines and wings fall off when the plane was essentially intact until impact.

Or half the witnesses swearing the plane was in a right turn and the other half in a left.

These people weren't lying. They honestly believed what they claimed to see.
 
Re: Private autopsy reportedly reveals Ferguson teen shot six times;police use more t

You don't get shot in the palm of the hand like Brown did unless you're putting your hands up to surrender.

The fact that you think that him charging the officer is a fact just shows your incredible bias.

The fact that you accept that he was surrendering shows your incredible bias. How are you any different??
 
Re: Private autopsy reportedly reveals Ferguson teen shot six times;police use more t

That's true. We know a few things. We need to know more before drawing conclusions. There is important forensic data we don't have.
Yes, the toxicology results should be interesting.
 
Re: Private autopsy reportedly reveals Ferguson teen shot six times;police use more t

The thing is, I currently think it probably is ONE of those extremes.

However, there is no way to determine which one at this point.

Yes, if I were running at someone to grab them, say tackle them, I would have my head down and my arms out, because that's what they teach us to do. Now, Brown didn't play football despite his size, but that method of fighting isn't exactly a complex martial art, difficult to pick up. Run at guy, grab.
 
Re: Private autopsy reportedly reveals Ferguson teen shot six times;police use more t

Yes, the toxicology results should be interesting.

Maybe.

But then again, maybe not.

Some people are saying he must have been on some serious drugs to take a hit like that and keep on going (IF that "Brown charged Wilson" story is accurate at all, and we don't know).

But possibly not. I mean, if he was shot in the arm first, Wilson's handgun wouldn't necessarily have the stopping power to put Brown down were he charging at him. A headshot would do that though.
 
Re: Private autopsy reportedly reveals Ferguson teen shot six times;police use more t

Maybe.

But then again, maybe not.

Some people are saying he must have been on some serious drugs to take a hit like that and keep on going (IF that "Brown charged Wilson" story is accurate at all, and we don't know).

But possibly not. I mean, if he was shot in the arm first, Wilson's handgun wouldn't necessarily have the stopping power to put Brown down were he charging at him. A headshot would do that though.
I think it's the series of really stupid decisions that suggests he was likely impaired. Especially if we accept his family's assertion that he was a very gentle person.

People who are thinking clearly don't rob a store and risk jail time for a few cigars, then casually walk home down the middle of the road, a tell a cop to buzz off when all he does is tell you to get on the sidewalk.
 
Re: Private autopsy reportedly reveals Ferguson teen shot six times;police use more t

It's an excellent point, presuming the body wasn't altered between the time the incident occurred and the time Baden had access to the body. I understand the State conducted its official autopsy prior to Baden being given access to the body. Are we certain the body wasn't "cleaned" prior to Baden getting access? We'll know if Baden's observations are accurate when we see the initial autopsy conducted by the State.

You note Baden said it would have to be confirmed by examination of the clothing - seems to me he's saying it's not definitively determined.

If the state "cleaned" the body before it would be passed along for independent autopsy, that would be tampering, and a big issue at trial.
 
Re: Private autopsy reportedly reveals Ferguson teen shot six times;police use more t

:doh
That is the known evidence.

And that's the problem. We have one side of the story, except for his friend's testimony that he was surrendering.

Somebody is lying, and we don't know who. We know who you believe, but not the actual facts.
 
Re: Private autopsy reportedly reveals Ferguson teen shot six times;police use more t

Did the officer execute him when he was kneeling down and surrendering?

It's possible. We don't know for sure, all we know so far is that this is dividing along typical partisan lines in which the conservatives believe the white guy.

I don't even believe that conservatives are racist, but when they all line up to defend the white guy without fail....it makes it seem that way.
 
Re: Private autopsy reportedly reveals Ferguson teen shot six times;police use more t

Your comments are absurd.
The thug attacked the Officer and went for the Officer's gun. That is a life threatening incident.
Then as the Officer gained control of his weapon, Brown tried to flee, the Officer got out of his car and Brown then started charging him.

Only six shots? Justified.

Wow... You speak with such authority as to how the events transpired. I didn't realize you actually witnessed this. Thanks for contributing facts to the discussion that has been nothing but speculation to date. (no one likes people that just spout off their unfounded personal impressions... they add nothing intelligent to the discussion).

It is rather interesting, however, that this particular autopsy seems to run contrary to your eyewitness account. Remember, when you testify, you will be under oath. Perhaps you should rethink you story in light of new facts.
 
Re: Private autopsy reportedly reveals Ferguson teen shot six times;police use more t

Wow... You speak with such authority as to how the events transpired. I didn't realize you actually witnessed this. Thanks for contributing facts to the discussion that has been nothing but speculation to date. (no one likes people that just spout off their unfounded personal impressions... they add nothing intelligent to the discussion).

It is rather interesting, however, that this particular autopsy seems to run contrary to your eyewitness account. Remember, when you testify, you will be under oath. Perhaps you should rethink you story in light of new facts.

For Excon, if a black person gets shot, it's the black person's fault... always.
 
Re: Private autopsy reportedly reveals Ferguson teen shot six times;police use more t

I don't even believe that conservatives are racist, but when they all line up to defend the white guy without fail....it makes it seem that way.
When did we learn that the guy "they were defending without fail" was white?
 
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