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Thread: ‘I just kept asking: Why am I being arrested for sitting in my aunt’s driveway?’

  1. #171
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    Re: ‘I just kept asking: Why am I being arrested for sitting in my aunt’s driveway?’

    Quote Originally Posted by MaggieD View Post
    If you aren't supposed to be out from midnight to 6 AM, then home is where you belong...unless you work nights or are staying over at someone's house. Who the hell cares? I won't get stopped or arrested. You will. *shrug* Until you have the actual wording of the curfew, you're making stuff up. So am I. I'll err on the side of caution. You go sit in your car in your friend's driveway with three other people and get hauled down to the station. *shrug again*
    Actually if there is a curfew and you go out in public to get to your work at night then you have broken the law.
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    Re: ‘I just kept asking: Why am I being arrested for sitting in my aunt’s driveway?’

    Quote Originally Posted by dirtpoorchris View Post
    Actually if there is a curfew and you go out in public to get to your work at night then you have broken the law.
    Depends. I'd expect that exceptions for people who have to be at work are routinely made except in the most extreme circumstances.
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    Re: ‘I just kept asking: Why am I being arrested for sitting in my aunt’s driveway?’

    What this really tells me is dude needs to stop smoking.
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    Re: ‘I just kept asking: Why am I being arrested for sitting in my aunt’s driveway?’

    Quote Originally Posted by MaggieD View Post
    A "common definition" means GO HOME. They weren't home. It's a small point and hardly worth all this effort. They won't even be charged.
    As another perspective:

    It was obvious from the WAPO piece, if reported accurately, that they were well aware of the curfew and chose to go sit in the car rather than stand on the walk or in the yard because they knew that could be construed as violation of the curfew. It was very obvious to me that they knew they were supposed to go home by curfew and they very well knew why they were being arrested despite feigning innocence.

    But as for the reason for the curfew, it seems to be a pretty benign and reasonable precaution when you have a situation in which people caught up in a mob mentality use something for an excuse to vandalize, commit theft and robbery and assault, and generally terrorize people. And, such occurrences more often happen at night most especially after some courage-inspiring alcohol or other drugs have been consumed. And because the cops are generally pretty busy on the night beat taking care of ordinary crime, the more they can minimize that mob mentality, the easier it is to do their jobs and the safer it is for the law abiding citizens.

    Police misconduct happens and it should be addressed consistently and with appropriate severity. It should not be tolerable to any freedom loving people. But neither should a mob mentality and riots that punish and terrorize innocent people be acceptable or justifiable in any way to freedom loving people. If society rioted every time some hooligan or thug or bully or sociopath beat up on or murdered somebody, the whole country would be rioting al the time. Let's don't try to justify what happened in Ferguson just because somebody thought a police officer overstepped his authority even if that was the case.
    "I think the best way of doing good to the poor, is not making them easy in poverty, but leading or driving them out of it." --Benjamin Franklin 1776

  5. #175
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    Re: ‘I just kept asking: Why am I being arrested for sitting in my aunt’s driveway?’

    Quote Originally Posted by MaggieD View Post
    You cannot be outside. Is that too difficult a concept for you?
    IF being outside on your own property is in violation of a curfew that means in areas that have a juvenile curfew law, kids cant even be outside on their own parents property?


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    Re: ‘I just kept asking: Why am I being arrested for sitting in my aunt’s driveway?’

    Quote Originally Posted by dirtpoorchris View Post
    Actually if there is a curfew and you go out in public to get to your work at night then you have broken the law.
    Yeah, I agree with you. If you're AT work, though, I think you'd be okay.
    The devil whispered in my ear, "You cannot withstand the storm." I whispered back, "I am ​the storm."

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    Re: ‘I just kept asking: Why am I being arrested for sitting in my aunt’s driveway?’

    Quote Originally Posted by TheDemSocialist View Post
    IF being outside on your own property is in violation of a curfew that means in areas that have a juvenile curfew law, kids cant even be outside on their own parents property?
    We aren't talking about a juvenile curfew. We're talking about an emergency curfew because of civil unrest. This guy and the three girls with him were not on their own property.
    The devil whispered in my ear, "You cannot withstand the storm." I whispered back, "I am ​the storm."

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    Re: ‘I just kept asking: Why am I being arrested for sitting in my aunt’s driveway?’

    Quote Originally Posted by TheDemSocialist View Post
    IF being outside on your own property is in violation of a curfew that means in areas that have a juvenile curfew law, kids cant even be outside on their own parents property?
    Most curfew laws regarding teens would not restrict a person being outside in their parent's yard but nothing is said about being outside in another relative's yard.

    The St. Louis statute involving teen curfew says this:

    Curfew for juveniles.


    It shall be unlawful for any juvenile to be or remain in or upon the streets, alleys, rights-of-way or similar places within the City of St. Louis at night during the period ending at 5:00 a.m. and beginning at 11:59 p.m. on Friday and Saturday Night and at 11:00 p.m. on all other nights, except as provided in this chapter.
    (Ord. 63784 § 3, 1996.)

    15.110.030 Exemptions to curfew restrictions.

    A. When accompanied by parent of such juvenile; when accompanied by a person over the age of twenty-one authorized by a parent.

    B. When juvenile is on the sidewalk of a place where such juvenile resides, or on the sidewalk of either next door neighbor not communicating an objection to the police.

    C. When returning home, by a direct route from (and within one hour after the termination of) a school or city sponsored activity, or an activity of a religious or other association, or place of employment.

    I would imagine a general curfew such as in the case of the Ferguson riots would be much the same except it would require adults to be at their own home.
    "I think the best way of doing good to the poor, is not making them easy in poverty, but leading or driving them out of it." --Benjamin Franklin 1776

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    Re: ‘I just kept asking: Why am I being arrested for sitting in my aunt’s driveway?’

    Quote Originally Posted by AlbqOwl View Post
    As another perspective:

    It was obvious from the WAPO piece, if reported accurately, that they were well aware of the curfew and chose to go sit in the car rather than stand on the walk or in the yard because they knew that could be construed as violation of the curfew. It was very obvious to me that they knew they were supposed to go home by curfew and they very well knew why they were being arrested despite feigning innocence.

    But as for the reason for the curfew, it seems to be a pretty benign and reasonable precaution when you have a situation in which people caught up in a mob mentality use something for an excuse to vandalize, commit theft and robbery and assault, and generally terrorize people. And, such occurrences more often happen at night most especially after some courage-inspiring alcohol or other drugs have been consumed. And because the cops are generally pretty busy on the night beat taking care of ordinary crime, the more they can minimize that mob mentality, the easier it is to do their jobs and the safer it is for the law abiding citizens.

    Police misconduct happens and it should be addressed consistently and with appropriate severity. It should not be tolerable to any freedom loving people. But neither should a mob mentality and riots that punish and terrorize innocent people be acceptable or justifiable in any way to freedom loving people. If society rioted every time some hooligan or thug or bully or sociopath beat up on or murdered somebody, the whole country would be rioting al the time. Let's don't try to justify what happened in Ferguson just because somebody thought a police officer overstepped his authority even if that was the case.
    I completely agree with you.
    The devil whispered in my ear, "You cannot withstand the storm." I whispered back, "I am ​the storm."

  10. #180
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    Re: ‘I just kept asking: Why am I being arrested for sitting in my aunt’s driveway?’

    Quote Originally Posted by AlbqOwl View Post
    As another perspective:

    It was obvious from the WAPO piece, if reported accurately, that they were well aware of the curfew and chose to go sit in the car rather than stand on the walk or in the yard because they knew that could be construed as violation of the curfew. It was very obvious to me that they knew they were supposed to go home by curfew and they very well knew why they were being arrested despite feigning innocence.

    But as for the reason for the curfew, it seems to be a pretty benign and reasonable precaution when you have a situation in which people caught up in a mob mentality use something for an excuse to vandalize, commit theft and robbery and assault, and generally terrorize people. And, such occurrences more often happen at night most especially after some courage-inspiring alcohol or other drugs have been consumed. And because the cops are generally pretty busy on the night beat taking care of ordinary crime, the more they can minimize that mob mentality, the easier it is to do their jobs and the safer it is for the law abiding citizens.

    Police misconduct happens and it should be addressed consistently and with appropriate severity. It should not be tolerable to any freedom loving people. But neither should a mob mentality and riots that punish and terrorize innocent people be acceptable or justifiable in any way to freedom loving people. If society rioted every time some hooligan or thug or bully or sociopath beat up on or murdered somebody, the whole country would be rioting al the time. Let's don't try to justify what happened in Ferguson just because somebody thought a police officer overstepped his authority even if that was the case.
    I don't get it. I really do not see where you think that they knew they were breaking the law. I would have thought it was perfectly fine for me to be at any residence and that it was perfectly fine to be anywhere on the property. If I thought I wasn't breaking the law, I still might be cautious about needlessly drawing attention. So I would sit in my car. When the press asked me, I might say "I didn't want to seem as if we were loitering". These are not rabble rousing people. The guy maintains a business. He probably wasn't allowed to smoke in his aunt's house, he didn't want to stand around and draw needless attention, so he makes the choice for them to sit in the car instead of stand on the porch. This is a respectful, deferential course of action. It is the simplest explanation.

    No one has been able to show any legal definition example where the law requires you to be at your own home, inside. No one has been able to turn up Missouri's state of emergency law. At the point where the police began their harassment, they had NO idea whether the guy and the other people were at their own home. There have been many examples of curfew having the legal definition of simply being out of public places and these people were. It is highly likely at this point that we will find that these people were in fact NOT disobeying the law.

    Anyway, we are getting closer. Here is the actual executive order signed by the governor. I believe we will either find the Missouri definition of 'curfew' by looking up the relevant cited laws, or that the superintendent of the state patrol will have been given the authority to define the relevant parameters of the curfew. I don't have time at the moment to pursue the leads.

    Executive Order 14-08 | Governor Jay Nixon

    Executive Order 14-08
    HomeNewsExecutive Orders
    
    WHEREAS, the events occurring in the City of Ferguson, Missouri have created conditions of distress for the citizens and businesses of that community; and

    WHEREAS, our citizens must have the right to peacefully assemble and protest; and

    WHEREAS, the rule of law must be maintained in the City of Ferguson for the protection of the citizens and businesses of that community; and

    WHEREAS, the Missouri State Highway Patrol, with the assistance and cooperation of the St. Louis County Police Department, has been patrolling in the City of Ferguson over the past week; and

    WHEREAS, the conditions necessary to declare the existence of an emergency pursuant to Chapter 44, RSMo, have been found to exist; and

    WHEREAS, an invocation of the provisions of Sections 44.010 through 44.130, RSMo, is necessary to ensure the safety and welfare of the citizens of the City of Ferguson.

    NOW, THEREFORE, I, JEREMIAH W. (JAY) NIXON, GOVERNOR OF THE STATE OF MISSOURI, by virtue of the authority vested in me by the Constitution and Laws of the state of Missouri, including Sections 44.010 through 44.130, RSMo, do hereby declare that a State of Emergency exists in the state of Missouri.

    I do hereby direct the Missouri State Highway Patrol, through its Superintendent, to command all operations necessary to ensure public safety and protect civil rights in the City of Ferguson and, as necessary, surrounding areas during the period of this emergency.

    I further order that such other local law enforcement agencies, as deemed necessary by the Superintendent of the Missouri State Highway Patrol to maintain order in the City of Ferguson, shall assist the Missouri State Highway Patrol when requested by the Superintendent and such law enforcement agencies, when operating in the City of Ferguson, shall cooperate with all operational directives of the Missouri State Highway Patrol.

    I further order the imposition of a curfew in the City of Ferguson under such terms and conditions deemed necessary and appropriate by the Superintendent of the Missouri State Highway Patrol.

    This order shall be terminated upon execution of a subsequent Executive Order.

    IN WITNESS WHEREOF, I have hereunto set my hand and caused to be affixed the Great Seal of the State of Missouri, in the City of Jefferson, on this 16th day of August, 2014.
    Last edited by Dezaad; 08-18-14 at 05:32 PM.
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