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Gov. Rick Perry indicted for abuse of power for carrying out threat [W:613/629]

Re: Gov. Rick Perry indicted for abuse of power for carrying out threat to veto prose

As usual with you it's BS! The only funding Perry shut off was money used to investigate corruption. It looks like Perry was attempting to cover his own ass, something Nixon taught you republicans well.

Covering his ass for what exactly ?
 
Re: Gov. Rick Perry indicted for abuse of power for carrying out threat to veto prose

I think the thing here is, he would have been fine if he didn't say anything about her resigning and he vetoed it.

It's like you can decide not to hire someone because they are black. But if you tell them you are not hiring them because they are black you are in trouble.

Gov. Perry stating his reason is why this falls into a grey enough area that a Grand Jury indicted him.
 
Re: Gov. Rick Perry indicted for abuse of power for carrying out threat to veto prose

Like Judge Jeanine states, "Grand juries will indict a ham sandwich". And evidently in Austin Texas, they like ham.



Well said Judge! Next!
 
Re: Gov. Rick Perry indicted for abuse of power for carrying out threat to veto prose

Moderator's Warning:
Let me add that the personal attacks, baiting and flaming need to cease as well.
 
Re: Gov. Rick Perry indicted for abuse of power for carrying out threat to veto prose

The position of using his power as an elected official to try to force another elected official to resign?

How is that position not an abuse of authority?

Greetings, Karl. :2wave:

If it had been done covertly, or secretly, rather than out in the open as he handled it, I might agree with you. He chose not to act in an under-handed or backstabbing way. Instead, he explained to the people of Texas why he felt that the position that she held required maintaining the public trust in receiving fair treatment for all, and he was open and upfront about it. Public perception is important, and time will tell us if he was correct.
 
Re: Gov. Rick Perry indicted for abuse of power for carrying out threat to veto prose

It's not a matter of like or dislike, but deemed fitness to hold the office - however, on that basis, in some cases yes - that's why impeachment procedures exist.

NO, it's not a matter of fitness because it's not the Governor's job to determine the fitness of the DA. That's a job for the voters or for others who have the legal authority to impeach.

But let's re-word my question: "Is it beneficial to the govt for an officeholder to use governmental powers to undo the results of an election when those powers are not meant to be used for that purpose?"

Be careful. If you think it's beneficial, you weaken the argument against the DA using his powers to prosecute Perry. After all, in approving Perry's actions solely on the basis of her lack of fitness, then how can you object to the DA taking action against Perry based on Perry's lack of fitness?
 
Re: Gov. Rick Perry indicted for abuse of power for carrying out threat to veto prose

The chart you presented seems to prove that the two Presidents Bush - Sr. in 1990 and Jr. in 2001 - put forward the best policies to counter a recession in the shortest period of time. I believed as much, but thanks for the verification.

I'm not sure how you came to that conclusion. The chart shows GHWB and bush* with the 2nd and 3rd longest recoveries. The two shortest recoveries were under Nixon and Reagan.
 
Re: Gov. Rick Perry indicted for abuse of power for carrying out threat to veto prose

Very simple, my statement was factually correct.
Well, you say that it is factuallt correct.
But David Icke says that what he says is factually correct as well.

Is there some reason why you cannot make your case using Texas law and the information in the indictment?

Like Judge Jeanine states, "Grand juries will indict a ham sandwich". And evidently in Austin Texas, they like ham.
Well said Judge! Next!
A grand jury failed to indict Lehmberg over her fiasco.
:shrug:

Maybe Texans tolerate drunks better than they do politicians.
 
Re: Gov. Rick Perry indicted for abuse of power for carrying out threat to veto prose

Gov. Perry stating his reason is why this falls into a grey enough area that a Grand Jury indicted him.

Not according to your boy captain comb over

Unless he was demonstrably trying to scrap the ethics unit for other than his stated reason, Perry indictment seems pretty sketchy.

— David Axelrod (@davidaxelrod)*August 16, 2014
 
Re: Gov. Rick Perry indicted for abuse of power for carrying out threat to veto prose

Like Judge Jeanine states, "Grand juries will indict a ham sandwich". And evidently in Austin Texas, they like ham.



Well said Judge! Next!


Totally and emphatically AGREE! :yes:

Greetings, Vesper. :2wave:
 
Re: Gov. Rick Perry indicted for abuse of power for carrying out threat to veto prose

Well, you say that it is factuallt correct.
But David Icke says that what he says is factually correct as well.

Is there some reason why you cannot make your case using Texas law and the information in the indictment?

A grand jury failed to indict Lehmberg over her fiasco.
:shrug:

Maybe Texans tolerate drunks better than they do politicians.

The Constitution of the State of TX says I am factually correct. Your problem seems to be with the Constitution of the State. Please point to the articles in that Constitution which Perry violated with the veto?
 
Re: Gov. Rick Perry indicted for abuse of power for carrying out threat to veto prose

Not according to your boy captain comb over

I already stated in my first post in this thread that I doubt this will go far. The post you just quoted is just talking about the grey area.
 
Re: Gov. Rick Perry indicted for abuse of power for carrying out threat to veto prose

Greetings, Karl. :2wave:

If it had been done covertly, or secretly, rather than out in the open as he handled it, I might agree with you. He chose not to act in an under-handed or backstabbing way. Instead, he explained to the people of Texas why he felt that the position that she held required maintaining the public trust in receiving fair treatment for all, and he was open and upfront about it. Public perception is important, and time will tell us if he was correct.
So, you're saying that if Perry snuck into a person's home late at night, shot them in the back, then snuck out and kept quiet about it, he would be guilty of murder.

Conversely, if he had explained why he was going to do it to the public, then shot that person on a public street in the middle of the day, in an open and upfront way while looking them in the eye, then he might be adjudged by public acclaim as not guilty and instead simply executing his lawful, official duties (so to speak).

In both cases we'll assume that, in Perry's view, the person had it coming and, also in Perry's view, that the person had no right to a trail before sentence is imposed (by him).

I must say that your argument has an interesting take on jurisprudence :lamo
 
Re: Gov. Rick Perry indicted for abuse of power for carrying out threat to veto prose

I already stated in my first post in this thread that I doubt this will go far. The post you just quoted is just talking about the grey area.

And my post was pointing out that even some democrats don't think it's even a grey area as his stated reason is an acceptable reason to veto the bill
 
Re: Gov. Rick Perry indicted for abuse of power for carrying out threat to veto prose

The Constitution of the State of TX says I am factually correct.
Yet you failed to construct a case. You have merely asserted again.


Please point to the articles in that Constitution which Perry violated with the veto?
Perry was not charged with violating the TX constitution.
He was charged with violating Texas law.
So even though he may not have violated the TX constitution, it's very much beside the point that Perry was charged with violating Texas law.
Most criminal cases are like that--the defendant is charged with violating laws not the constitution.

There's a link to what it is that Perry is actually charged with.

Whenever you get ready, you can read it and respond to what is actually going on.

Or are trying to imply that the Texas laws used to indict Perry are unconstitutional laws?
If so, please feel free to make you case.

Google can prob'ly find you a copy of the TX constitution and TX legal code.

You could take the indictment, TX code, and TX constitution and make you case.

Or you can just make a bunch more assertions.
But please don't take offense if folks treat your assertions like other anonymous assertions on the internet.
:shrug:
 
Re: Gov. Rick Perry indicted for abuse of power for carrying out threat to veto prose

Yet you failed to construct a case. You have merely asserted again.



Perry was not charged with violating the TX constitution.
He was charged with violating Texas law.
So even though he may not have violated the TX constitution, it's very much beside the point that Perry was charged with violating Texas law.
Most criminal cases are like that--the defendant is charged with violating laws not the constitution.

There's a link to what it is that Perry is actually charged with.

Whenever you get ready, you can read it and respond to what is actually going on.

Or are trying to imply that the Texas laws used to indict Perry are unconstitutional laws?
If so, please feel free to make you case.

Google can prob'ly find you a copy of the TX constitution and TX legal code.

You could take the indictment, TX code, and TX constitution and make you case.

Or you can just make a bunch more assertions.
But please don't take offense if folks treat your assertions like other anonymous assertions on the internet.
:shrug:

As has been stated over and over again, you can indict a ham sandwich. Want to place a wager on how the courts rule?
 
Re: Gov. Rick Perry indicted for abuse of power for carrying out threat to veto prose

So, you're saying that if Perry snuck into a person's home late at night, shot them in the back, then snuck out and kept quiet about it, he would be guilty of murder.

Conversely, if he had explained why he was going to do it to the public, then shot that person on a public street in the middle of the day, in an open and upfront way while looking them in the eye, then he might be adjudged by public acclaim as not guilty and instead simply executing his lawful, official duties (so to speak).

In both cases we'll assume that, in Perry's view, the person had it coming and, also in Perry's view, that the person had no right to a trail before sentence is imposed (by him).

I must say that your argument has an interesting take on jurisprudence :lamo

I believe that murder is not the topic here, but to answer your question, it's wrong however and whenever it's done. In this case, however, even David Axelrod agrees that this case against Perry is "sketchy." The people of Texas, as well as the rest of the U.S., will be watching to see what happens when a Governor, openly and above-board, does what he feels is correct, and explains his reasons to the public, but is indicted by the same people that report to the woman who was sentenced for driving while extremely drunk, and spent time in jail as a result. Could it be that perhaps she is abusing her authority over her employees? I don't know - maybe they agree with her, but none of them are above the law!
 
Re: Gov. Rick Perry indicted for abuse of power for carrying out threat to veto prose

I believe that murder is not the topic here, but to answer your question, it's wrong however and whenever it's done. In this case, however, even David Axelrod agrees that this case against Perry is "sketchy." [...]
If one wants to let others do their thinking for them, then your point is valid.

The people of Texas, as well as the rest of the U.S., will be watching to see what happens when a Governor, openly and above-board, does what he feels is correct, and explains his reasons to the public, [...]
Again your claim is that feelings and/or public opinion supercede the law. I thought we'd already been down that road.

but is indicted by the same people
Ad hominem.

that report to the woman who was sentenced for driving while extremely drunk,
Ad hominem.

and spent time in jail as a result.
Ad hominem.

Could it be that perhaps she is abusing her authority over her employees?
Red herring, ad hominem.

I don't know - maybe they agree with her, but none of them are above the law!
Strawman, ad hominem.

All that effort, and your post said absolutely nothing.
 
Re: Gov. Rick Perry indicted for abuse of power for carrying out threat to veto prose

Perry simply isn't likable. The man can't carry moderates nationally and isn't half as connected as Bush was.


I think the time of the "Raging yet obviously fake Southern Conservative" has passed nationally speaking.
 
Re: Gov. Rick Perry indicted for abuse of power for carrying out threat to veto prose

What exactly is illegal about the Governor of a state vetoing any bill for any reason?

The part that is important is that they can't veto for any reason and Perry himself should know that. His mistake was speaking about the reasons for the veto. He can use the veto power to influence the bill being passed itself. He can't use it to threaten people to step down. It'd be like Obama vetoing any bill until the Republicans in the house resign.
 
Re: Gov. Rick Perry indicted for abuse of power for carrying out threat to veto prose

As usual with you it's BS! The only funding Perry shut off was money used to investigate corruption. It looks like Perry was attempting to cover his own ass, something Nixon taught you republicans well.

I'm not 100% sure, but which corruption is it that Perry's associated with? Implicated in? I've not heard anything, what have you on this?

Otherwise, it's an empty and baseless claim.
 
Re: Gov. Rick Perry indicted for abuse of power for carrying out threat to veto prose

If one wants to let others do their thinking for them, then your point is valid.


Again your claim is that feelings and/or public opinion supercede the law. I thought we'd already been down that road.


Ad hominem.


Ad hominem.


Ad hominem.


Red herring, ad hominem.


Strawman, ad hominem.

All that effort, and your post said absolutely nothing.

Some days are like that! :shrug: To summarize, I'm on Perry's side in this, and I don't think that comes as a surprise to you, but since I don't live in Texas, what I think probably doesn't matter to anyone but me anyway. :mrgreen:
 
Re: Gov. Rick Perry indicted for abuse of power for carrying out threat to veto prose

If one wants to let others do their thinking for them, then your point is valid.


Again your claim is that feelings and/or public opinion supercede the law. I thought we'd already been down that road.


Ad hominem.


Ad hominem.


Ad hominem.


Red herring, ad hominem.


Strawman, ad hominem.

All that effort, and your post said absolutely nothing.

I think you are misusing ad hominem, or you don't really know what it means.
An ad hominem (Latin for "to the man" or "to the person"[SUP][1][/SUP]), short for argumentum ad hominem, is a general category of fallacies in which a claim or argument is rejected on the basis of some irrelevant fact about the author of or the person presenting the claim or argument.[SUP][2][/SUP] Fallacious Ad hominem reasoning is normally categorized as an informal fallacy,[SUP][3][/SUP][SUP][4][/SUP][SUP][5][/SUP] more precisely as a genetic fallacy,[SUP][6][/SUP] a subcategory of fallacies of irrelevance.[SUP][7][/SUP] Ad hominem reasoning is not always fallacious, for example, when it relates to the credibility of statements of fact.
Ad hominem arguments are the converse of appeals to authority, and may be used in response to such appeals.

Abusive

Abusive ad hominem usually involves attacking the traits of an opponent as a means to invalidate their arguments. Equating someone's character with the soundness of their argument is a logical fallacy. Mere verbal abuse in the absence of an argument, however, is not ad hominem nor any kind of logical fallacy.[SUP][8][/SUP]

Ad hominem abuse is not to be confused with slander or libel, which employ falsehoods and are not necessarily leveled to undermine otherwise sound stands with character attacks.
Ad hominem - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I don't see how you come to the conslusion that many of the legitimate points that Polgara raises qualify as ad hominem. Her factual points are just that, and not ad hominem attacks.

Comes across as being dismissive of her points and counter without subtance.
 
Re: Gov. Rick Perry indicted for abuse of power for carrying out threat to veto prose

As has been stated over and over again, you can indict a ham sandwich. Want to place a wager on how the courts rule?
You're giving up just like that?
You're not even going to try to debate, construct an argument which explains and supports your position?
Just some assertions and gainsaying, huh?
 
Re: Gov. Rick Perry indicted for abuse of power for carrying out threat to veto prose

The chart you presented seems to prove that the two Presidents Bush - Sr. in 1990 and Jr. in 2001 - put forward the best policies to counter a recession in the shortest period of time. I believed as much, but thanks for the verification.

They were different types of recessions, with different causes. If you don't understand the extent of the debt bubble that was the cause of the GLOBAL recession that began in 2007, you really shouldn't be talking about appropriate responses. Besides, the "response" to the 2001 recession was to cut taxes, blow up the deficit, start a war, greatly expand government spending, and then start blowing up the debt bubble that collapsed in 2007. You think that was a sustainable economic plan?

Besides, note the employment drop. Took 24 months, 18 months of them pre-Obama, to hit bottom. Different kind of recession by orders of magnitude.
 
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