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Thread: Gov. Rick Perry indicted for abuse of power for carrying out threat [W:613/629]

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    Re: Gov. Rick Perry indicted for abuse of power for carrying out threat to veto prose

    Quote Originally Posted by Karl View Post
    I see that Perry is still spouting off in the media, while under indictment. Amazing -- not that he would be expected to understand that all these statements can be used against him in court, but that his handlers are letting him dig the hole deeper. Is the entire Perry camp, including the lawyers, that clueless?
    Given their experience, maybe they are very well informed, and you aren't?

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    Re: Gov. Rick Perry indicted for abuse of power for carrying out threat to veto prose

    Quote Originally Posted by ocean515 View Post
    Given their experience, maybe they are very well informed, and you aren't?
    It would seem highly unlikely -- have you ever heard of a lawyer that let their indicted client freely talk in public and to the media about their case?

    And wouldn't the reason for the client keeping their mouth shut be obvious?

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    Re: Gov. Rick Perry indicted for abuse of power for carrying out threat to veto prose

    Quote Originally Posted by Karl View Post
    It would seem highly unlikely -- have you ever heard of a lawyer that let their indicted client freely talk in public and to the media about their case?

    And wouldn't the reason for the client keeping their mouth shut be obvious?
    Well, I would suppose the level of freedom an attorney would suggest a client exercise was in direct proportion to the confidence they had related to the charges.

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    Re: Are all veto threats categorically legal?

    Quote Originally Posted by Simon W. Moon View Post
    Are all veto threats categorically legal?
    Iow, is there any possible way that a veto threat could be illegal?
    I think that's what a lot of people are overlooking.

    I see some quoting so called 'experts'. Here's one with a slightly different view that some refuse to look at.


    Sandra Guerra Thompson, director of the Criminal Justice Institute at the University of Houston Law Center, said having a governor face such charges is unusual, especially over a veto.

    "He has veto power, and that generally gives him a right to deny some kind of legislative action without necessarily having to have any justification of it," she said. "Where you run into problems is where there seems to be some kind of quid pro quo - you do this, or I'll do that. And I think that's where this case is coming from."


    The two judges that were handed the case are both Republicans (one appointed by Perry) and the prosecutor seems to be favored by the Texas Republican hierarchy, so I dismiss the partisan argument.

    I've read that Mike McCrum had over 40 witnesses testify before the GJ, including Perry aides and insiders. Of course all that is sealed and we don't know what was said, but the fact is that many testified from both sides and the GJ still handed down an indictment.

    So, we shall see....
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    Re: Gov. Rick Perry indicted for abuse of power for carrying out threat to veto prose

    Quote Originally Posted by Objective Voice
    Yes, she did, but was it conducted in the performance of her duties?

    You see, an elected official can be charged with misconduct and such could apply to her performance on and off duty. But that's not the charge levied against her. Her's is public intoxication. As such, was she drinking on or off the clock?

    It may sound like semantics, but it really isn't. Regardless, I agree that she should have resigned. However, I disagree that she should be forced to do so by the TX Governor.
    Quote Originally Posted by nota bene View Post
    Texas Code does provide for the removal from office of a public official for intoxication on or off-duty:

    Sec. 87.013. GENERAL GROUNDS FOR REMOVAL. (a) An officer may be removed for
    1) incompetency;
    (2) official misconduct; or
    (3) intoxication on or off duty caused by drinking an alcoholic beverage.
    LOCAL GOVERNMENT CODE CHAPTER 87. REMOVAL OF COUNTY OFFICERS FROM OFFICE; FILLING OF VACANCIES
    You've taken the discussion in a direction I hadn't intended; however, in doing so you've further illustrated why Gov. Perry's actions are wrong.

    In the Local Government Code you linked to (subparagraph 3 above), Section 87.012 provides the remedy for removing DA Lemhberg from her duly elected position. Furthermore, since she was convicted for public intoxication, the District Court that governs the county where she holds office should have made a recommendation for her removal from office or suspension at the time it rendered its verdict on her public intoxication charge. Considering that Lemhberg continued in her official capacity as DA, it stands to reason neither were done. Nonetheless, it is clear that any effort to have her removed from office - in this case a forced resignation - is either the responsibility of her immediate supervisor - the County Commission(er), the District Court or her own accord. So, again, let me be clear here: I am not saying that Gov. Perry does not have the authority to veto any bill he disagrees with. That isn't want many of us are arguing here. As Chief Executive of the State of Texas, he has that right to do so. What I'm arguing is:

    He can't publically threaten a duly elected official who is NOT under his direct supervision (i.e., an appointed member of his governing staff -vs- local/county official) to resign their post and then use his position of power as the Chief Executive to pressure said office to resign, i.e., issuing a veto to legislation that would withhold or reduce funding for the office the official oversees and then following through with said veto with the full knowledge that in so doing his actions would marginalize the official and/or impact the overall effectiveness of the office said official oversees.

    That's the basis of what myself and others are arguing. So, again, anyone who can't see the wrong in what Gov. Perry has done simply just does not want to see it.
    Last edited by Objective Voice; 08-18-14 at 02:19 PM.
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    Re: Gov. Rick Perry indicted for abuse of power for carrying out threat to veto prose

    Quote Originally Posted by Texmex View Post
    Are you dense? Whether or not she was drunk or not doesn't change the fact that it is none of Perry's business.
    I get it, we are pretenting in this thread, nothing is real. Anyone that looks at this and can't realize what is going on here is seriously lacking brain cells.

    If you think that they would have gone after Perry if he wasn't a potential Presidential candidate and a threat to Hillary (or whoever), you are just lying to yourself. Don't piss down my back and tell me it's raining.
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    Re: Gov. Rick Perry indicted for abuse of power for carrying out threat to veto prose

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    Lived here 22 years, been in court many times as a witness and the DA did not lose her job, TX Governor has the right to veto a bill, where was the abuse of power? The courts are going to decide and some leftwingers aren't going to like the decision, IMO
    Once again, you are missing the point. The issue is not about the Governor's right to veto funds. He has every right to do that. However, he commits a felony when he uses that power to threaten a State of Texas employee. He wasn't indicted for using his veto. He was indicted for using his office to make threats.
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    Re: Gov. Rick Perry indicted for abuse of power for carrying out threat to veto prose

    Quote Originally Posted by Excon View Post
    What did you not understand about the following replies?
    You are in denial of the arguments you just engaged in?
    Holy ****.


    The above crap has already been refuted by others.
    All you do is deny because you lack understanding. Just like you didn't understand that James Ferguson wasn't indicted for the same thing or under the same law.
    You just don't understand. Nor could you, as your bias doesn't allow you to see reality in this instance.


    I am not going to rehash that of which you have already been shown wrong.
    There is no need because you are in denial and do not know of what you speak.
    Pointing out what others have already pointed out just will lead to more denials from you.
    You refuse to learn from them, and I know will will refuse to learn from me.


    You simply have no clue, just like you had no clue about what you claimed about James Ferguson.

    So when the Governor walks on this crap, what are you going to say?
    Once again, and true to form, you have still not answered my question. Where is the hole in this?


    1) The law says that, if you intend to harm another by misusing government property that has come into the possession of the government employee by virtue of his or her employment, then you have committed a crime.

    2) The property in question consists of the funds for the Public Integrity Unit.

    3) The employee in question is Assistant DA Rosemary Lehmburg.

    4) Had Perry not made any threat, and just cancelled the funds, he could have given any reason he wanted, within reason... For example "The Public Integrity Unit is a waste of taxpayer money, and so I am vetoing the funds".

    5) However, Perry issued a threat against Lehmburg and her office. This was AFTER a grand jury already decided that she could keep her job.

    6) In making the threat, Perry showed that his action, if taken, would be to act against a public employee by using property of the state of Texas as a weapon.

    7) When Perry then carried out this threat, under the laws of the State of Texas, Perry had harmed Lehmberg by misusing government property (the funds).

    8) Perry has been indicted for that.
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    Re: Gov. Rick Perry indicted for abuse of power for carrying out threat to veto prose

    Quote Originally Posted by Objective Voice View Post
    You've taken the discussion in a direction I hadn't intended; however, in doing so you've further illustrated why Gov. Perry's actions are wrong.

    In the Local Government Code you linked to (subparagraph 3 above), Section 87.012 provides the remedy for removing DA Lemhberg from her duly elected position. Furthermore, since she was convicted for public intoxication, the District Court that governs the county where she holds office should have made a recommendation for her removal from office or suspension at the time it rendered its verdict on her public intoxication charge. Considering that Lemhberg continued in her official capacity as DA, it stands to reason neither were done. Nonetheless, it is clear that any effort to have her removed from office - in this case a forced resignation - is either the responsibility of her immediate supervisor - the County Commission(er), the District Court or her own accord. So, again, let me be clear here: I am not saying that Gov. Perry does not have the authority to veto any bill he disagrees with. That isn't want many of us are arguing here. As Chief Executive of the State of Texas, he has that right to do so. What I'm arguing is:

    He can't publically threaten a duly elected official who is NOT under his direct supervision (i.e., an appointed member of his governing staff -vs- local/county official) to resign their post and then use his position of power as the Chief Executive to pressure said office to resign, i.e., issuing a veto to legislation that would withhold or reduce funding for the office the official oversees and then following through with said veto with the full knowledge that in so doing his actions would marginalize the official and/or impact the overall effectiveness of the office said official oversees.

    That's the basis of what myself and others are arguing. So, again, anyone who can't see the wrong in what Gov. Perry has done simply just does not want to see it.
    Exactly. Lemburgh may be a lush, but she is not under Perry's direct control. Local authorities already dealt with her by convening a grand jury, which said that she could keep her job. Perry attempted to circumvent that decision by issuing threats which, when carried out, constituted a felony.
    The ghost of Jack Kevorkian for President's Physician: 2016

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    Re: Gov. Rick Perry indicted for abuse of power for carrying out threat to veto prose

    So I've come in late because I finally saw the whole story behind this thing. That politician was dead wrong in her behavior: I hope she got or gets fired over it. But Perry as dead wrong to put the veto of some of the budget in the form of a threat: that alone tells you something about him.

    A grand jury has decided that there's enough evidence for a trail, and I hope that Perry gets stuck.
    “The people do no want virtue; but they are the dupes of pretended patriots” : Elbridge Gerry of Mass; Constitutional Convention 1787

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