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Thread: Gov. Rick Perry indicted for abuse of power for carrying out threat [W:613/629]

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    Re: Gov. Rick Perry indicted for abuse of power for carrying out threat to veto prose

    Quote Originally Posted by newpublius View Post
    I don't care.
    I know you don't. Which is like saying, you don't care if Obama decided to veto a bill if white people voted in favor of it. However, we both know you'd be against it and would even call him a racist tyrant. With tyrant being the important word here. This is no different. I stand against it on the grounds that the executive has shown that he is lowering politics to a personal level and their opposition to the bill in 100% personal not political or even legislative.


    No, you're wrong, but even if you were right, and you're not, the proper venue would be a civil proceeding to get a court. The dangerous precedent would be to resolve a political question in CRIMINAL courts. That's ridiculously dangerous on so many levels.

    I'm telling you, this is how its going down: NONJUSTICIABLE POLITICAL QUESTION. Perry will not be scathed in criminal court (he might pay a political price, but his political actions have natural political consequences). Its so bad that whoever is instigating this better distance themselves because its BAD, its not just bid, its truly frivolous as in ****ING RIDICULOUS BAD, its so bad that the BETTER DEBATE is about what the consequence to the prosecutors are going to be.
    Facts:

    1. Veto is not limitless. An executive can't veto a bill because they don't like X's face and want them to quit. That's unethical.
    2. Perry has made it clear that his opposition is personal not in anyway legislative.
    3. His reasons for veto will not stand in any court.
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    Re: Gov. Rick Perry indicted for abuse of power for carrying out threat to veto prose

    Quote Originally Posted by danarhea View Post
    Not too partisan. Michael Crum is the prosecutor who pleaded his case before the grand jury that indicted Perry. He is not readily identifiable as either a Democrat or a Republican, and is well liked by people in both parties. Add to that the fact that he was appointed by a Republican judge, and the claim of a political witch hunt goes out the window. Said Crum......

    "“I looked at the law. I looked at the facts and I presented everything possible to the grand jury.”

    Michael Crum did his job, and the grand jury returned the two indictments.
    It's McCrum.

    Perry's defense by attacking DWI lady isn't a defense at all. He wants to put her on trial and that's not gonna fly. Even with her deplorable behavior, she hasn't been disbarred. Attacking her doesn't help his case.

    With that said, I have zero faith that the courts will take action against him and convict him. I would be surprised if it happens.
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    Re: Gov. Rick Perry indicted for abuse of power for carrying out threat to veto prose

    Quote Originally Posted by Ryan5 View Post
    I actually think Rick Perry is probably one of the more honest politicians in that he doesn't go to great lengths to hide his overt snake oil salesmen esq trappings.

    He's in it for the money and he makes no bones about it. Played Democrat for as long as he needed to then once he understood who was who he promptly became an oil lobbyist unofficially under the guise of governor.


    In some sense you have to at least respect that. It's a solid transition and a logical one.
    From your link:

    Perry spent his first six years in politics as a Democrat, in a somewhat forgotten history that is sure to be revived and scrutinized by Republican opponents if he decides to run for president.

    A raging liberal he was not. Elected to represent a slice of rural West Texas in the state House of Representatives in 1984, Perry, a young rancher and cotton farmer, gained an early reputation as a fiscal conservative. He was one of a handful of freshman “pit bulls,” so named because they sat in the lower pit of the House Appropriations Committee, where they fought to keep spending low. Rick Perry: The Democrat Years | The Texas Tribune

    First, historically, Texas Democrats have been pretty conservative. Second, Perry was 34 in 1984 and is now 64. It's just as easy to think that his political thinking evolved as it is to deride him for "playing Democrat."

    In what way does Perry "make no bones" about being "in it for the money"? Again, links please.

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    Re: Gov. Rick Perry indicted for abuse of power for carrying out threat to veto prose

    Quote Originally Posted by newpublius View Post
    Yeah, but his basic legal competence is absolutely going to be questioned. 36.03 contains a specific exception that anybody with two neurons should know not to proceed against the Governor, the other count is about misusing funds which itself is absurd because Perry vetoed the funds. If he took the funds and spent the funds on roads and UNILATERALLY mis-used public funds, then you would have SOMETHING....

    Crum may or may not have a political agenda, he's dancing with frivolity and he may not realize it yet, but he just stepped in ****. I really don't know how deep, maybe nothing will stick, but I could see him being admonished or censured for even proceeding on what any lawyer should know is a nonjusticiable political question.
    This wasn't about the funds at all. This was about Perry issuing a threat to cancel the funds, then carrying out the threat when it didn't go his way. Making the threat is a felony under the laws of the State of Texas. If Perry hadn't made the threat, and just cancelled the funds, he would have been OK, but his mouth overloaded his ass on this one.
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    Re: Gov. Rick Perry indicted for abuse of power for carrying out threat to veto prose

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    And again, what legislative objection does Perry have to the bill? None. His objection is with something which has nothing to do with the legislation itself. He's being unethical and tyrannical. Any court which allows this to pass is setting a terrible precedent. Any US citizen who supports it is in favor of tyranny at the state level.
    The factual operation of the bill as it hits the streets/ground is exactly what he should be concerned with as an executive officer. He needn't object to the legislation one iota, not one iota. He can simply object to how its actually going to be applied, in reality, based on his judgment of facts on the ground as he sees them to be. And he doesn't even have to be correct either.....Legislatures can make 'bad laws' and Governors can make 'bad vetoes' -- nothing alters the quantum of constitutional authority vested.

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    Re: Gov. Rick Perry indicted for abuse of power for carrying out threat to veto prose

    Quote Originally Posted by newpublius View Post
    The factual operation of the bill as it hits the streets/ground is exactly what he should be concerned with as an executive officer. He needn't object to the legislation one iota, not one iota. He can simply object to how its actually going to be applied, in reality, based on his judgment of facts on the ground as he sees them to be. And he doesn't even have to be correct either.....Legislatures can make 'bad laws' and Governors can make 'bad vetoes' -- nothing alters the quantum of constitutional authority vested.
    But that is not the real issue. Here in Texas, it is a felony to use one's office to make threats, which is what he has been indicted for. If Perry had kept his big mouth shut, and just vetoed the funds, he wouldn't be in trouble. Instead, he made the threat after a grand jury decided that she could keep her job.
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    Re: Gov. Rick Perry indicted for abuse of power for carrying out threat to veto prose

    Quote Originally Posted by danarhea View Post
    This was about Perry issuing a threat to cancel the funds, then carrying out the threat when it didn't go his way. Making the threat is a felony under the laws of the State of Texas. If Perry hadn't made the threat, and just cancelled the funds, he would have been OK
    Do you understand how absurd that is? You're essentially arguing that Perry had the unconditional power to veto the legislation, but he didn't have the conditional power to veto the very same legislation. Think about that.

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    Re: Gov. Rick Perry indicted for abuse of power for carrying out threat to veto prose

    Quote Originally Posted by danarhea View Post
    But that is not the real issue. Here in Texas, it is a felony to use one's office to make threats, which is what he has been indicted for.
    No, it isn't, it specifically EXCEPTS this.....36.03 contains an exception.....

    Look, this is getting circular. Watch this play out. NONJUSTICIABLE POLITICAL QUESTION.

    THAT'S THE ACTUAL ANSWER.....I know you disagree, but that is really how its going to play out and when it does you'll learn something about separation of powers.

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    Re: Gov. Rick Perry indicted for abuse of power for carrying out threat to veto prose

    Quote Originally Posted by newpublius View Post
    Do you understand how absurd that is? You're essentially arguing that Perry had the unconditional power to veto the legislation, but he didn't have the conditional power to veto the very same legislation. Think about that.
    Don't you think it subverts the will of the voters who elected her to office?

    Isn't that tyranny?
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    Re: Gov. Rick Perry indicted for abuse of power for carrying out threat to veto prose

    Quote Originally Posted by newpublius View Post
    Do you understand how absurd that is? You're essentially arguing that Perry had the unconditional power to veto the legislation, but he didn't have the conditional power to veto the very same legislation. Think about that.
    he doesn't have the right to make threats. That is a felony under Texas law.
    The ghost of Jack Kevorkian for President's Physician: 2016

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