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Thread: Gov. Rick Perry indicted for abuse of power for carrying out threat [W:613/629]

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    Re: Gov. Rick Perry indicted for abuse of power for carrying out threat to veto prose

    Quote Originally Posted by newpublius View Post
    That's a great 'equitable' argument. It's not a constitutional argument.
    And yet... the precedent is set in stone. Veto power has never been used for personal grudges. It has been used to modify legislation. The courts will rule accordingly. Personal grudges can't be used as an argument for vetoing. A court that rules in favor of this would essentially be setting the groundwork for executive tyranny.
    I refuse to accept the view that mankind is so tragically bound to the starless midnight of racism and war that the bright daybreak of peace and brotherhood can never become a reality. - MLK

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    Re: Gov. Rick Perry indicted for abuse of power for carrying out threat to veto prose

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    He can, if he wants an ethics committee doing an investigation on him. What you're arguing in favor of is executive tyranny. A president doesn't like X person in the other party? Veto any bill until they resign. That's not a democracy or a republic. It's tyranny.
    If he took money, fine, but if not, he could say he's not signing **** until they commit suicide. There's NO qualification to the use of the power. Nothing, in law, compels the executive to sign anything into law. I'm not arguing in favor of 'executive tyranny' I'm noting that separation of powers actually does vest unilateral authority to act in the executive branch.

    Nothing prevents a legislature from passing bad laws (constitutional challenges happen after of course), even bad laws become laws, you don't call that a legislative tyranny.

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    Re: Gov. Rick Perry indicted for abuse of power for carrying out threat to veto prose

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    And yet... the precedent is set in stone. Veto power has never been used for personal grudges. It has been used to modify legislation. The courts will rule accordingly. Personal grudges can't be used as an argument for vetoing. A court that rules in favor of this would essentially be setting the groundwork for executive tyranny.
    He doesn't need ANY argument to utilize the veto.

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    Re: Gov. Rick Perry indicted for abuse of power for carrying out threat to veto prose

    Quote Originally Posted by newpublius View Post
    If he took money, fine, but if not, he could say he's not signing **** until they commit suicide. There's NO qualification to the use of the power.
    And yet precedent is pretty much the only thing that matters in US politics. There is no precedent for veto power being used for personal differences. That woman did nothing which is relevant to the legislation in question. Perry's vetoing is solely based on the fact that he wants her to step down. The veto has absolutely nothing to do with the legislation itself. He himself admitted to that. There is not a single court that will rule in his favor on this one. It would not only set a terrible precedent, it would allow for executive tyranny.
    I refuse to accept the view that mankind is so tragically bound to the starless midnight of racism and war that the bright daybreak of peace and brotherhood can never become a reality. - MLK

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    Re: Gov. Rick Perry indicted for abuse of power for carrying out threat to veto prose

    Quote Originally Posted by newpublius View Post
    He doesn't need ANY argument to utilize the veto.
    Actually, considering the veto power is used to modify legislation, he does indeed. Just admit it, Perry opened his mouth and that's what did him in. Instead of arguing that he was vetoing this because he didn't feel the legislation was right, he said he wouldn't do it unless someone quit. That's not only unethical, it's downright tyrannical.
    I refuse to accept the view that mankind is so tragically bound to the starless midnight of racism and war that the bright daybreak of peace and brotherhood can never become a reality. - MLK

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    Re: Gov. Rick Perry indicted for abuse of power for carrying out threat to veto prose

    The point you're missing is that any reason is constitutionally permissible, including personal grudges. The precedent is that the Executive Branch possesses the power to either sign something into law or not....there's NO qualification to that, constitutionally. Politically there can be consequences of course, but the power is vested, it is his power to utilize.

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    Re: Gov. Rick Perry indicted for abuse of power for carrying out threat to veto prose

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    Actually, considering the veto power is used to modify legislation, he does indeed. Just admit it, Perry opened his mouth and that's what did him in. Instead of arguing that he was vetoing this because he didn't feel the legislation was right, he said he wouldn't do it unless someone quit. That's not only unethical, it's downright tyrannical.
    The pretext of a DWI conviction for a person in charge of a Public Integrity Unit, hate to tell you, but the equitable rub really isn't against the Governor. The point is that he didn't feel the legislation was right because it funded a unit, not that the unit itself was a bad idea, but that the unit RUN BY THIS PARTICULAR INDIVIDUAL was a bad idea and that's perfectly permissible.

    Veto threats are LEGAL.

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    Re: Gov. Rick Perry indicted for abuse of power for carrying out threat to veto prose

    Quote Originally Posted by newpublius View Post
    The point you're missing is that any reason is constitutionally permissible
    Is it now?

    Texas Politics - The Executive Branch

    The state Constitution gives the Governor ten days after receiving a bill to either sign it or veto it. Signing the bill passes it into law, vetoing it returns it to the Legislature with a veto message explaining the governor's reasons for rejecting the measure. If the Legislature is in session at the time of the veto, legislators may attempt to reverse the veto or perhaps pass modified legislation that responds to the governor's objections. If the legislative session ends within ten days of the governor's receipt of any legislation, however, the Governor has another twenty days from adjournment to act on any such pending bills. Because there is typically a last-minute rush to pass legislation, the Governor frequently receives most bills within the last ten days of the session. This provides governors not only with extra time to consider bills but also creates a powerful advantage. If the Legislature is out of session, it cannot meet to vote on overrides, so any vetoes the Governor casts after the end of the session will be final.

    The political limitations upon the veto power are subtler and have in many cases shaped governors' political fortunes. While vetoes can seem like an authoritative exercise of power - a bid to demonstrate decisive leadership - they may also be viewed as a sign of a governor's difficulty or even failure to deal effectively with legislators. Thus, the veto needs to be used strategically. Legislators who work long and hard on legislation may feel blindsided and less likely to cooperate in the future when a governor vetoes their legislation - particularly if the governor has not effectively communicated his or her priorities on legislation. Legislators may feel set up and ambushed by a governor who remains aloof during the session then vetoes a large amount of legislation.
    Even Texans seem to agree that vetoing power is limited to reasons which modify the legislation itself. An executive trying to modify an agency of government through lack of funding? Nonsense. He's not only being unethical, he's being tyrannical.
    I refuse to accept the view that mankind is so tragically bound to the starless midnight of racism and war that the bright daybreak of peace and brotherhood can never become a reality. - MLK

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    Re: Gov. Rick Perry indicted for abuse of power for carrying out threat to veto prose

    Quote Originally Posted by nota bene View Post
    Links please.
    Typical conservative. Doesn't even know their own candidate.


    Rick Perry: The Democrat Years | The Texas Tribune


    If only we could all be snake oil salesmen eh?


    Another political move Perry made back then: He was a top Texas supporter and organizer in 1988 for Al Gore, who ran as a southern conservative rather than the populist reformer he eventually became as the 2000 Democratic presidential nominee.

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    What say ye who have decided that Perry is wrongly charged?

    Eighty pages and 800 posts and hardly a one wants to discuss the indictment?

    What say ye who have decided that Perry is wrongly charged?

    Are we saying that the Texas laws in question apply to the governor; however, Perry did not perform acts which match the specifics of the crimes detailed in the laws?
    ~OR~

    Are we saying that Perry did perform acts which match the specifics of the Texas laws in question; however, it's not a crime when the Governor does it?


    What say ye?
    I may be wrong.

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