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Gov. Rick Perry indicted for abuse of power for carrying out threat [W:613/629]

Re: Gov. Rick Perry indicted for abuse of power for carrying out threat to veto prose

Conservative said:
Where is the personal harm done to the DA? Does she still have her job? Was Perry under any kind of investigation by the ethics department?
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Harm: She was unlawfully threatened.
Does she still have her job? Yes, only because she refused to resign. Yet, the Gov. vetoed in accordance with his threat.
Was Perry under any kind of investigation by the ethics department? We don't know, maybe so.

Conservative said:
This is typical of you. You want it to be so therefore it is so.
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The grand jury was convinced. Remember, the judge who handled the complaint is a Republican. The special prosecutor appointed was a former federal prosecutor under H.W. Bush.



(TEXAS) PENAL CODE

TITLE 8. OFFENSES AGAINST PUBLIC ADMINISTRATION

CHAPTER 36. BRIBERY AND CORRUPT INFLUENCE

Sec. 36.03. COERCION OF PUBLIC SERVANT OR VOTER. (a) A person commits an offense if by means of coercion he:

(1) influences or attempts to influence a public servant in a specific exercise of his official power or a specific performance of his official duty or influences or attempts to influence a public servant to violate the public servant's known legal duty; or

(2) influences or attempts to influence a voter not to vote or to vote in a particular manner.

(b) An offense under this section is a Class A misdemeanor unless the coercion is a threat to commit a felony, in which event it is a felony of the third degree.

(c) It is an exception to the application of Subsection (a)(1) of this section that the person who influences or attempts to influence the public servant is a member of the governing body of a governmental entity, and that the action that influences or attempts to influence the public servant is an official action taken by the member of the governing body. For the purposes of this subsection, the term "official action" includes deliberations by the governing body of a governmental entity.
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Trying to get the DA to resign via threat is not an an official action taken by the member of the governing body getting a DA to resign is certainly an attempt to influence a public servant.
 
Re: Gov. Rick Perry indicted for abuse of power for carrying out threat to veto prose

MTAtech said:
Harm: She was unlawfully threatened.
Does she still have her job? Yes, only because she refused to resign. Yet, the Gov. vetoed in accordance with his threat.
Was Perry under any kind of investigation by the ethics department? We don't know, maybe so.

The grand jury was convinced. Remember, the judge who handled the complaint is a Republican. The special prosecutor appointed was a former federal prosecutor under H.W. Bush.



Trying to get the DA to resign via threat is not an an official action taken by the member of the governing body getting a DA to resign is certainly an attempt to influence a public servant.
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Threatened with what? Was her salary going to be cut? How does cutting a department budget constitute personal harm to her? You are stretching because you want to believe the indictment but you don't understand the Constitution of TX. The individual that brought the charges is also under investigation for withholding a witness. None of course which has any bearing on this case.

What influence was Perry trying to create? Again was he under any kind of investigation? Interesting that many of your so called expert liberals don't buy your argument
 
Re: Gov. Rick Perry indicted for abuse of power for carrying out threat to veto prose

Conservative said:
Where is the personal harm done to the DA?
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The statute in question does not use the descriptor "personal."
Nor does the statute in question require that harm actually occur.
(I can provide links to the relevant TX code again if you would like to read what it is we're talking about.)


So, why do you think that "personal harm" must have occurred for the charges to be valid?

Is it that, "You want it to be so therefore it is so?"
 
Re: Gov. Rick Perry indicted for abuse of power for carrying out threat to veto prose

Simon W. Moon said:
The statute in question does not use the descriptor "personal."
Nor does the statute in question require that harm actually occur.
(I can provide links to the relevant TX code again if you would like to read what it is we're talking about.)


So, why do you think that "personal harm" must have occurred for the charges to be valid?

Is it that, "You want it to be so therefore it is so?"
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Why? because that is what defines an ethics problem and there is no such thing here. She wasn't hurt at all, she didn't have her pay cut, the department she oversaw wasn't investigating Perry, and she didn't lose her job. You people just don't get it and the fact that you want the charges to be true don't make them true.
 
Re: Gov. Rick Perry indicted for abuse of power for carrying out threat to veto prose

MTAtech said:
It is said that things are difficult to understand when one is invested in not understanding.
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Well, we're all humans ( I am pretty sure ) and we all have to face the limitations of human mind. It ain't perfect.
We all have a tendency to skip thought in certain circumstances especially when it comes to things which seem to confirm what we already believe to be true.
It's just a by-product of being human.
We all do it.

MTAtech said:
Perry didn't demand a resignation from former Cameron County DA Armando Villalobos, who was taking payola.
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Villalobos has been sentenced to thirteen years in prison. Resignation is kind of moot.
 
Re: Gov. Rick Perry indicted for abuse of power for carrying out threat to veto prose

Conservative said:
Why? because that is what defines an ethics problem and there is no such thing here.
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Even if I were to concede your point above and we were to take it as granted, it still doesn't address the fact that the criminal charges against Perry are based on a particular Texas law which does not require that harm actually occur--personal harm or any other sort of harm.
I would be happy to provide another link to the Texas laws in question if you would like to read the laws.

Perry is not charged with causing personal harm to Lehmberg.
Pointing out that Lehmberg was not personally harmed offers no rebuttal to the charges against Perry.

The indictment contains the charges against Perry.
I can link to the indictment if you would like to read it so that you will know what it is that we are talking about.
up to you.
 
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Re: Gov. Rick Perry indicted for abuse of power for carrying out threat to veto prose

Simon W. Moon said:
Even if I were to concede your point above and we were to take it as granted, it still doesn't address the fact that the criminal charges against Perry are based on a particular Texas law which does not require that harm actually occur, personal harm or any other sort of harm.

Perry is not charged with causing personal harm to Lehmberg.
Pointing out that Lehmberg was not personally harmed offers no rebuttal to the charges against Perry.

The indictment contains the charges against Perry.
I can link to the indictment if you would like to read it so that you will know what it is that we are talking about.
up to you.
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You can indict a ham sandwich and you can find people to hand down that indictment. Getting the courts however to overlook the rule of law is another story. I have seen the charges but remember charges don't constitute fact, the evidence does and until you can show harm to the DA in the form of cut pay or loss of job, the investigation by her department of ethics violations by Perry, this indictment is a political witch hunt against a Governor whose economic results are making liberals look foolish and very incompetent.
 
Re: Gov. Rick Perry indicted for abuse of power for carrying out threat to veto prose

Conservative said:
...until you can show harm to the DA in the form of cut pay or loss of job, the investigation by her department of ethics violations by Perry, this indictment is a political witch hunt against a Governor...
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Can you provide any citation for this assertion?

Generally, the rule of law means that what is in the law is what is used to conduct trials, etc.
But you're saying that what's in the law is not enough?

It's not enough for the prosecution to prove that Perry's actions comported to the charges against him?

The prosecution must also show that there was harm to the DA because...? [this is where you insert the relevant Texas law or whatever you have got which supports you novel assertion.]
 
Re: Gov. Rick Perry indicted for abuse of power for carrying out threat to veto prose

Simon W. Moon said:
Can you provide any citation for this assertion?

Generally, the rule of law means that what is in the law is what is used to conduct trials, etc.
But you're saying that what's in the law is not enough?

It's not enough for the prosecution to prove that Perry's actions comported to the charges against him?

The prosecution must also show that there was harm to the DA because...? [this is where you insert the relevant Texas law or whatever you have got which supports you novel assertion.]
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No, what I am saying is that the Governor of TX has the authority to veto any law for whatever reason. He would violate ethic laws if he acted in an unethical manner. Asking for a resignation isn't unethical and happens all the time. Now if Governor Perry threatened to fire her which he didn't have the authority to do, if Governor Perry cut her pay which didn't happen, and if Governor Perry was under investigation by the department she lead then there would be an ethics problem. none of that happened but the true ethics violation was done by the Asst. DA

Keep reaching and hoping, maybe we can get liberal misery spread into TX afterall
 
Re: Gov. Rick Perry indicted for abuse of power for carrying out threat to veto prose

"Asking for her resignation"... :rofl
 
Re: Gov. Rick Perry indicted for abuse of power for carrying out threat to veto prose

Thorgasm said:
"Asking for her resignation"... :rofl
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Yes, I forgot, liberals believe people get jobs for life and are entitlement to them regardless of their actions. Yes, he asked for her resignation. You don't seem to understand the concept
 
Re: Gov. Rick Perry indicted for abuse of power for carrying out threat to veto prose

ocean515 said:
Given their experience, maybe they are very well informed, and you aren't?
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It could also be that Perry isn't following his lawyer's instructions.
 
Re: Gov. Rick Perry indicted for abuse of power for carrying out threat to veto prose

Texmex said:
It could also be that Perry isn't following his lawyer's instructions.
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Speculation is opinion and opinions aren't necessarily facts.
 
Re: Gov. Rick Perry indicted for abuse of power for carrying out threat to veto prose

Conservative said:
Yes, I forgot, liberals believe people get jobs for life and are entitlement to them regardless of their actions. Yes, he asked for her resignation. You don't seem to understand the concept
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Can you please explain to me the difference between a request and an ultimatum?
 
Re: Gov. Rick Perry indicted for abuse of power for carrying out threat to veto prose

Conservative said:
Speculation is opinion and opinions aren't necessarily facts.
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Thank you for the information, I didn't know that. :roll:
 
Re: Gov. Rick Perry indicted for abuse of power for carrying out threat to veto prose

Thorgasm said:
Can you please explain to me the difference between a request and an ultimatum?
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per your request

noun
1.
an act of asking politely or formally for something.
"a request for information"
synonyms: appeal, entreaty, plea, petition, application, demand, call; More
a thing that is asked for.
"to have our ideas taken seriously is surely a reasonable request"
synonyms: requirement, wish, desire; choice
"indicate your requests on the form"
an instruction to a computer to provide information or perform another function.
a tune or song played on a radio program, in some instances accompanied by a personal message, in response to a letter or call asking for it.
archaic
the state of being sought after.
"human intelligence, which is in constant request in a family"
verb
verb: request; 3rd person present: requests; past tense: requested; past participle: requested; gerund or present participle: requesting
1.
politely or formally ask for.
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Ultimatum

noun
a final demand or statement of terms, the rejection of which will result in retaliation or a breakdown in relations.
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Neither are illegal or ethics violations
 
Re: Gov. Rick Perry indicted for abuse of power for carrying out threat to veto prose

Conservative said:
per your request



Ultimatum



Neither are illegal or ethics violations
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So it's an ultimatum then? Thanks for clearing that up.

Now, look up coercion.
 
Re: Gov. Rick Perry indicted for abuse of power for carrying out threat to veto prose

nota bene said:
Tom Delay said this morning that he thinks it's totally unconstitutional for a local agency to have statewide jurisdiction. He also said, "These people for 30 years have been doing this to their enemies, Democrat or Republican, and they've intimidated the Legislature because they're only accountable to the voters of Travis County, which is the most liberal county in Texas, if not the nation."

Video here: Tom DeLay calls Texas Gov. Rick Perry's indictment a
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Tom Delay huh. This guy is one worthless piece of ****. I enjoyed watching his political career come to an end. Next to Delay, Perry is a Saint!
 
Re: Gov. Rick Perry indicted for abuse of power for carrying out threat to veto prose

Thorgasm said:
So it's an ultimatum then? Thanks for clearing that up.

Now, look up coercion.
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Be happy to but nothing you claim is a violation of the law in the state of TX. The Governor had no authority over the Asst. DA, the Assistant DA didn't lose pay, The Assistant DA didn't lose her job, and it was the Asst. DA that was unethical thus Perry protected the taxpayers of TX. Sorry, that is reality no matter how you want to spin it. Even Democrat leaders here don't believe this case is valid. Guess you know more than they do
 
Re: Gov. Rick Perry indicted for abuse of power for carrying out threat to veto prose

Texmex said:
Tom Delay huh. This guy is one worthless piece of ****. I enjoyed watching his political career come to an end. Next to Delay, Perry is a Saint!
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Yeah, let's win with character assassination since you cannot win at the ballot box in TX
 
Re: Gov. Rick Perry indicted for abuse of power for carrying out threat to veto prose

Conservative said:
No, what I am saying is that the Governor of TX has the authority to veto any law for whatever reason.
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So it would be legal for me, if I were the governor of Texas, to threaten vetoes of legislation unless certain people were to perform sexual favors?
That is a reason which falls under the category of "whatever reason".

See, I don't think that's true.
I think it's blatantly obvious that withholding vetoes for sexual favors is obviously illegal.
So I cannot get on board with the idea that a Gov can veto for any reason whatsoever.


Conservative said:
Asking for a resignation isn't unethical and happens all the time.
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Perry was not charged with "asking for a resignation".
The actual charges are laid out in the indictment.
"Asking for a resignation" is not among the charges.
There are only two charges. Neither one of the charges is "asking for a resignation".

It's totally awesome that you have all of these defenses for Perry.
Unfortunately, most of these defenses you're offering for Perry are defenses for charges which are not being made.

Conservative said:
Keep reaching and hoping, maybe we can get liberal misery spread into TX afterall
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I'll take this opportunity to say again that you have been repeatedly mistaken and are still mistaken about what I think.
:shrug:
 
Re: Gov. Rick Perry indicted for abuse of power for carrying out threat to veto prose

Conservative said:
Yeah, let's win with character assassination since you cannot win at the ballot box in TX
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But I did win. Tom Delay's name didn't appear one more time in any election.
 
Re: Gov. Rick Perry indicted for abuse of power for carrying out threat to veto prose

Conservative said:
Be happy to but nothing you claim is a violation of the law in the state of TX. The Governor had no authority over the Asst. DA, the Assistant DA didn't lose pay, The Assistant DA didn't lose her job, and it was the Asst. DA that was unethical thus Perry protected the taxpayers of TX. Sorry, that is reality no matter how you want to spin it. Even Democrat leaders here don't believe this case is valid. Guess you know more than they do
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The DA isn't on trial.

BTW, how can you cite Democratic leaders after saying this?

Conservative said:
Yes, I forgot, liberals believe people get jobs for life and are entitlement to them regardless of their actions.
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Which is it?
 
Re: Gov. Rick Perry indicted for abuse of power for carrying out threat to veto prose

Conservative said:
Yeah, let's win with character assassination since you cannot win at the ballot box in TX
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You mean like this?

Conservative said:
Yes, I forgot, liberals believe people get jobs for life and are entitlement to them regardless of their actions.
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Re: Gov. Rick Perry indicted for abuse of power for carrying out threat to veto prose

nota bene said:
Well, Ronnie Earle destroyed Tom Delay's career and reputation. The man spent three years in prison before being acquitted. I think Travis County Dems might call this a "win." And if this partisan ploy succeeds and derails Rick Perry's ambitions (when, really, he's capable of doing this all by himself), they'll also call this a "win" too.

What would be funny is if this backfires.
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What a wonderful memory, Tom Delay being in trouble.
 
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