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Gov. Rick Perry indicted for abuse of power for carrying out threat [W:613/629]

Re: Gov. Rick Perry indicted for abuse of power for carrying out threat to veto prose

And the courts will with progressives not liking the outcome. [...]
I have no interest in what anybody likes... I'm here to debate facts. You might try it.
 
Re: Gov. Rick Perry indicted for abuse of power for carrying out threat to veto prose

I have no interest in what anybody likes... I'm here to debate facts. You might try it.

Already have, there is nothing to debate, if the governor of TX has the authority to veto legislation and there are no laws stating reasons not to veto then ethics is a non issue here and the courts will rule in his favor regardless of what you think. The end of story.
 
Re: Gov. Rick Perry indicted for abuse of power for carrying out threat to veto prose

I'm not sure how you came to that conclusion. The chart shows GHWB and bush* with the 2nd and 3rd longest recoveries. The two shortest recoveries were under Nixon and Reagan.

As per Red's warning in post #613, I won't get into the discussion here because it's not relevant to the OP topic. I'll simply say I had my reasons for the comment.
 
Re: Gov. Rick Perry indicted for abuse of power for carrying out threat to veto prose

Nope, what you are trying to do is convict Perry on an ethics violation for doing what he had the authority to do. It is claimed that this is an ethics violation, If a Governor can veto legislation what does ethics have to do with it. It doesn't matter what his reasons were and you ought to know that. That is what the courts are going to decide as well. what then for you?

You keep acting as if I have something personal to gain from a conviction here. I don't. I don't live in Texas. So, I wouldn't be impacted one way or the other no matter the outcome in what is now a legal issue. I'm not looking for a victory in this neither for Gov. Perry not the DA. I'm merely debating the issue, nothing more.

As to the question of ethics, of course you can't see the problem because you refuse to see it as an abuse of power, a high-ranking government official overstepping his bounds, using his position as Governor of a state to force a duly elected official to leave her position. Again, Lehmberg wasn't appointed by him. So, she doesn't answer directly to him. She answers to the County Commissioner.
 
Re: Gov. Rick Perry indicted for abuse of power for carrying out threat to veto prose

I think the thing here is, he would have been fine if he didn't say anything about her resigning and he vetoed it.

It's like you can decide not to hire someone because they are black. But if you tell them you are not hiring them because they are black you are in trouble.

Gov. Perry stating his reason is why this falls into a grey enough area that a Grand Jury indicted him.

Kind of a sad commentary on affairs when a politician is indicted for being honest about his actions/intentions and yet wouldn't have been indicted had he simply been dishonest or silent. Consequently, those who favour the Perry indictment have no one to blame but themselves when politicians decide now that dishonesty is the best policy.
 
Re: Gov. Rick Perry indicted for abuse of power for carrying out threat to veto prose

I don't equate the two. Perry committed no crime. The DA did. Perry didn't tarnish his office. The DA did. Perry was upfront and honest with the people of Texas - he clearly, and plainly told them that if this DA refused to resign, he would do everything in his power to see that her office was defunded. [...]
Can you quote or explain the provisions of the Texas constitution or Texas law that allows the governor to punish individual people outside of the legal system?
 
Re: Gov. Rick Perry indicted for abuse of power for carrying out threat to veto prose

You keep acting as if I have something personal to gain from a conviction here. I don't. I don't live in Texas. So, I wouldn't be impacted one way or the other no matter the outcome in what is now a legal issue. I'm not looking for a victory in this neither for Gov. Perry not the DA. I'm merely debating the issue, nothing more.

As to the question of ethics, of course you can't see the problem because you refuse to see it as an abuse of power, a high-ranking government official overstepping his bounds, using his position as Governor of a state to force a duly elected official to leave her position. Again, Lehmberg wasn't appointed by him. So, she doesn't answer directly to him. She answers to the County Commissioner.

I am sorry but there is nothing to debate, ethics isn't even an issue it is about the governor's authority and he has a right to veto any legislation he wants for whatever reason he wants. Where is the abuse of power? The money taken from the taxpayers is controlled by the Governor, sounds to me like the DA has an ethics problem not Perry. Why would any taxpayer want someone in office who abused the public trust to have any of their money? She didn't have to resign just like Perry didn't have to authorize the spending for whatever reason.
 
Re: Gov. Rick Perry indicted for abuse of power for carrying out threat to veto prose

Can you quote or explain the provisions of the Texas constitution or Texas law that allows the governor to punish individual people outside of the legal system?

How was she personally punished? Part of her budget was cut, not her salary.
 
Re: Gov. Rick Perry indicted for abuse of power for carrying out threat to veto prose

I don't equate the two. Perry committed no crime. The DA did.

Yes, she did, but was it conducted in the performance of her duties?

You see, an elected official can be charged with misconduct and such could apply to her performance on and off duty. But that's not the charge levied against her. Her's is public intoxication. As such, was she drinking on or off the clock?

It may sound like semantics, but it really isn't. Regardless, I agree that she should have resigned. However, I disagree that she should be forced to do so by the TX Governor.
 
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Re: Gov. Rick Perry indicted for abuse of power for carrying out threat to veto prose

It'd be like Obama vetoing any bill until the Republicans in the house resign.

1. It wouldn't be like that, because at the federal level, the executive manipulates the judiciary. You can technically claim otherwise, but practically speaking, it's self-evident.

2. If Obama threatened to veto a bill out of Congress unless Boehner resigned, are you saying that would be illegal? If so, under what laws?
 
Re: Gov. Rick Perry indicted for abuse of power for carrying out threat to veto prose

So what is it that you know that leads you to believe that Perry has engaged in corrupt activities?

Or is this just a baseless accusation?

Just use Google and the stories abound.
 
Re: Gov. Rick Perry indicted for abuse of power for carrying out threat to veto prose

Exactly. At least he would have plausible deniability. I'm not really surprised that Perry is too dumb to know that, but rather shocked that his aides let him shoot his mouth off like that. As it stands he has no credible defense whatsoever.

That is exactly what it comes down to. I am shocked Perry did this. He should have been smarter then this. This was an unforced error on the governor.
 
Re: Gov. Rick Perry indicted for abuse of power for carrying out threat to veto prose

I am sorry but there is nothing to debate, ethics isn't even an issue it is about the governor's authority and he has a right to veto any legislation he wants for whatever reason he wants. Where is the abuse of power? The money taken from the taxpayers is controlled by the Governor, sounds to me like the DA has an ethics problem not Perry. Why would any taxpayer want someone in office who abused the public trust to have any of their money? She didn't have to resign just like Perry didn't have to authorize the spending for whatever reason.

Then it is the taxpayers who elected her who should make that decision with the power of their vote OR their voices by either contacting the DA's office directly and voicing their displeasure, protesting or contacting the County Commissioner.
 
Re: Gov. Rick Perry indicted for abuse of power for carrying out threat to veto prose

They were different types of recessions, with different causes. If you don't understand the extent of the debt bubble that was the cause of the GLOBAL recession that began in 2007, you really shouldn't be talking about appropriate responses. Besides, the "response" to the 2001 recession was to cut taxes, blow up the deficit, start a war, greatly expand government spending, and then start blowing up the debt bubble that collapsed in 2007. You think that was a sustainable economic plan?

Besides, note the employment drop. Took 24 months, 18 months of them pre-Obama, to hit bottom. Different kind of recession by orders of magnitude.

As per Red's warning in post #613 I won't respond, although I'd like to.
 
Re: Gov. Rick Perry indicted for abuse of power for carrying out threat to veto prose

Yes, she did, but was it conducted in the performance of her duties?

You see, an elected official can be charged with misconduct and such could be applied her performance on and off duty. But that's not the charge levied against her. Her's is public intoxication. As such, was she drinking on or off the clock?

It may sound like semantics, but it really isn't. Regardless, I agree that she should have resigned. However, I disagree that she should be forced to do so by the TX Governor.


I keep hearing she was forced to resign. When exactly did that happen? You think cutting part of her budget which wasn't her salary forced her to resign. You see you easily buy what you are being told.
 
Re: Gov. Rick Perry indicted for abuse of power for carrying out threat to veto prose

Then it is the taxpayers who elected her who should make that decision with the power of their vote OR their voices by either contacting the DA's office directly and voicing their displeasure, protesting or contacting the County Commissioner.

You seem to miss the point, Perry didn't cut her entire budget thus her salary only part of it. Was her salary affected?
 
Re: Gov. Rick Perry indicted for abuse of power for carrying out threat to veto prose

Just use Google and the stories abound.

Yes, I looked. The stories are all about the present, partially or even largely unknown facts of the indictment.

So that'd be parroting the biased lame stream media then.
 
Re: Gov. Rick Perry indicted for abuse of power for carrying out threat to veto prose

So, in other words, he should act like a two-faced liberal and not be honest with the voting public about what he's doing - is that it?

No he should have cut funding then when asked explained his action. Instead he used threats and the DA of Travis county called him on it.

Now I am not going to argue that this isn't politics as usual, but Perry walked himself into this problem.
 
Re: Gov. Rick Perry indicted for abuse of power for carrying out threat to veto prose

Heard about this on the radio news while driving to work a couple days ago....

Personally, I'm not too clear on what exactly he is accused of doing, so I'll reserve judgement for the moment.
 
Re: Gov. Rick Perry indicted for abuse of power for carrying out threat to veto prose

The underlined portion of your statement is what some are starting to question. Who would he have recommended to replace her? To that, let me ask the following questions:

1. Prior to the public intoxication conviction, had Gov. Perry ever publically complained about DA Lehmberg's job performance or that of the Public Integrity Unit she managed?

2. Assuming such charges of poor performance and unsatisfactory results were levied by Gov. Perry against DA Lehmberg, were they every substantiated?

What I'm getting at was there every a pattern of poor performance from DA Lehmberg and the PIU prior to the public intox conviction and did the Governor make such public?

My answer would be that I have no evidence that Governor Perry was dissatisfied with the DA's job performance prior to her being arrested, convicted, and serving time for DUI. I think that clearly provides Governor Perry with cover that this is simply him being political and opposing a Democrat. He made the "promise" to veto the funding bill after her conviction and disgraceful actions, not before. As such, the veto threat was directly related to his view of her lack of integrity and fitness for the office she held, not her political affiliation.
 
Re: Gov. Rick Perry indicted for abuse of power for carrying out threat to veto prose

Yes, I looked. The stories are all about the present, partially or even largely unknown facts of the indictment.

So that'd be parroting the biased lame stream media then.

We'll see.
 
Re: Gov. Rick Perry indicted for abuse of power for carrying out threat to veto prose

And the courts will with progressives not liking the outcome. Governors have the authority to veto legislation for any reason they want and that is what they are going to rule in this case. Lehmberg didn't have to resign at all, part of her budget wasn't funded. She could have gone to the legislature and court of public opinion to get the veto overturned but the reality is she wanted to make this political as do most liberals

This is absolutely true - the Texas legislature has the constitutional right to overturn a Governor's veto if they don't agree with it. Was this attempted? Did the DA, a politician, lobby politicians to her cause? Could it be that the vast majority of politicians from both sides in the Texas legislature were glad the Governor vetoed the bill?

Moving political mudslinging to the courts is dangerous and wrong - that's why your country has separation of powers provisions.
 
Re: Gov. Rick Perry indicted for abuse of power for carrying out threat to veto prose

I keep hearing she was forced to resign. When exactly did that happen? You think cutting part of her budget which wasn't her salary forced her to resign. You see you easily buy what you are being told.

You don't see how cutting the budget to the office she had a duty to oversee had the potential of making her job more difficult? I'm sure you see what Gov. Perry did as using the power of the purse. I'd take the position as well IF the funding cut was done due to necessary budgetary reductions, but it wasn't.

You don't see how the Governor of any given state making public statements that equate to "either you'll leave office or I'll force you out" and then following through with that forceful action as a problem? If that's not a clear violation of ethics, I don't know what is. But that's in effect what Gov. Perry did. It's unfortunate that on the one hand you see what Gov. Perry (R) did as right and just, but you condemn President Obama (D) when he makes similar veto threats only they aren't made to force someone to resign from their duly elected position. But I think I understand now why you see Gov. Perry's actions as just.

It comes down to the power of the purse. If Congress can do it to the President to render him ineffective, why not a Governor (of a Republican-held state)?
 
Re: Gov. Rick Perry indicted for abuse of power for carrying out threat to veto prose

Can you quote or explain the provisions of the Texas constitution or Texas law that allows the governor to punish individual people outside of the legal system?

Who was punished outside of the legal system?
 
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