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ISIS massacres 90 Yazidis in Northern Iraq

Coin said:
Don't make that face Eco.
Human right is not just the free speech.
In your country no one care for you if you haven't a health care card (or how it is called there) or some $$$.
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Truest statement all day.
 
Coin said:
In your country no one care for you if you haven't a health care card (or how it is called there) or some $$$.
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No true. Everyone has access to the best emergency rooms in the world, and other care, even if they cannot afford it. Further, federal insurance is subsidized.

The developing world has nothing in comparison. Being able to visit a fly infested "emergency room" in the developing world for free is hardly a benefit and often a risk. And mental health care doesn't exist, except to execute gays.


I'm not bothering further, you think there are no human rights in the US and the West. Good day.
 
ecofarm said:
Your position assumes their opinion has no basis in fact. So they're either crazy, conspirators or all the stupid people.
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Thats the general nature of opposing opinions..

But I think you go further than I was thinking. I simply disagreed with their logic and made no judgment about them as people.
 
tacomancer said:
Thats the general nature of opposing opinions..

But I think you go further than I was thinking. I simply disagreed with their logic and made no judgment about them as people.
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When you disregard an entire group of people, half the US population, as having no basis whatsoever for their position, you are engaging in grand conspiracy theory.
 
ecofarm said:
When you disregard an entire group of people, half the US population, as having no basis whatsoever for their position, you are engaging in grand conspiracy theory.
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ok, lol. I will play this game and see how far into absurdity you are willing to go.

sure, i accept your premise! I think they're all crrrrrrazy!
 
Hamster Buddha said:
Why you gotta do that to me Eco?

For the record, just because I like a strong and confident woman, doesn't mean I want a dom. I guess you're for the weak and wimpy ones huh?
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You will not get a strong and confident women from Qaddafi's personal rape and torture harem.

Your misconception is matched only by someone's declaration herein of "there are no human rights in the US and the West".
 
Montecresto said:
Unbelievable. Just fantastic that you'd have that to say. I'd call you a liar if you told me you had all that and weren't happy.
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Oh come on, we even see it from people in our world. There are some people out there that hate all the modern trappings of society, and would rather live a simpler life, more in-tuned with nature or God. Ever heard of a guy named Yukio Mishima? He was a famous and well respect Japanese author and was even nominated three times for a nobel prize in literature. A guy like that you'd think be happy. In fact, he was so unhappy that society had moved away from it's bushido roots, he tried a coup attempt back in the 70's in Japan. And when that failed, he commited Sepuku.

Some people man..
 
ecofarm said:
No true. Everyone has access to the best emergency rooms in the world, and other care, even if they cannot afford it. Further, federal insurance is subsidized.

The developing world has nothing in comparison. Being able to visit a fly infested "emergency room" in the developing world for free is hardly a benefit and often a risk.
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No Eco, no.

An operation to the ear, costed 30k $ to my cousin and he told me that if he would have had the insurance, he would have paid 0 $. What a difference. Health care is a privilege and it's concepted as a business/market (by giving and taking).
People without the insurance are not treated the same way. They are always left at the end of the line.
 
Coin said:
Don't make that face Eco.
Human right is not just the free speech.
In your country no one care for you if you haven't a health care card (or how it is called there) or some $$$.
Click to expand...

Gaddafi's Libya Was Africa 's Most Prosperous Democracy

By Garikai Chengu

12 January, 2013
Countercurrents.org

Contrary to popular belief, Libya , which western media described as "Gaddafi's military dictatorship" was in actual fact one of the world's most democratic States.

In 1977 the people of Libya proclaimed the Jamahiriya or "government of the popular masses by themselves and for themselves." The Jamahiriya was a higher form of direct democracy with 'the People as President.' Traditional institutions of government were disbanded and abolished, and power belonged to the people directly through various committees and congresses.

The nation State of Libya was divided into several small communities that were essentially "mini-autonomous States" within a State. These autonomous States had control over their districts and could make a range of decisions including how to allocate oil revenue and budgetary funds. Within these mini autonomous States, the three main bodies of Libya 's democracy were Local Committees, People's Congresses and Executive Revolutionary Councils.
 
tacomancer said:
ok, lol. I will play this game and see how far into absurdity you are willing to go.

sure, i accept your premise! I think they're all crrrrrrazy!
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Well, let me know when you are willing and capable of recognizing the logic and reason of the opposing position.
 
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Hamster Buddha said:
Oh come on, we even see it from people in our world. There are some people out there that hate all the modern trappings of society, and would rather live a simpler life, more in-tuned with nature or God. Ever heard of a guy named Yukio Mishima? He was a famous and well respect Japanese author and was even nominated three times for a nobel prize in literature. A guy like that you'd think be happy. In fact, he was so unhappy that society had moved away from it's bushido roots, he tried a coup attempt back in the 70's in Japan. And when that failed, he commited Sepuku.

Some people man..
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What the hell does all that have to do with the FACT that Libyans had it better when Gaddafi was there.
 
tacomancer said:
Then we are doomed to never leave with the associated drain on our national resources, as they will start right back up as soon as they get a chance. Because as soon as one group is quelled, another will rise until its finally worked out of their culture (as we have been seeing for the last at least fourty years). So long as we are involved, we will give them an excuse to not blame themselves for their actions.

Personally I wish we could prevent genocide too, but if a culture is that committed, there isn't that much you can do to stop them since you can't wipe out an entire culture and retain the moral high ground. Maybe if let them do it for a generation, they next group of children will see the pointlessness of it.
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I agree that their cultural change must come from within, but I don't see a problem with containing the excesses of their cultural shifts or catalyzing the process. If a group threatens to reverse progress through extreme violence, as ISIS does, then we should prevent it from doing so. If people are trying to change their own culture but cannot due to a dictator (Syria and Libya), we should help them.

Plus, there's the question of our security and economic interests. An off-hands approach to the Taliban in Afghanistan didn't do us much good at all.
 
ecofarm said:
Anyone can find opinion articles that say anything. Not impressed. Got anything beside opinion articles and other logical fallacies?
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And anyone can ignore facts, as you demonstrate daily. What a total loss.

Libya is imploding. Its oil exports have fallen from 1.4 million barrels a day in 2011 to 235,000 barrels a day. Militias hold 8,000 people in prisons, many of whom say they have been tortured. Some 40,000 people from the town of Tawergha south of Misrata were driven from their homes which have been destroyed. "The longer Libyan authorities tolerate the militias acting with impunity, the more entrenched they become, and the less willing to step down" said Sarah Leah Whitson, Middle East and North Africa director at Human Rights Watch. "Putting off repeated deadlines to disarm and disband militias only prolongs the havoc they are creating throughout the country."
 
Montecresto said:
What the hell does all that have to do with the FACT that Libyans had it better when Gaddafi was there.
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Well, in almost every respect, Japan was better off at the time of this than they were during WW2 (or before hand to be more specific). But to this man, that didn't matter. The existence to him was a hollow one. This sentiment was by the way shared by Japanese people as a whole, who were awakened to their heritage, and didn't want to repeat the mistakes of the Mejii period. It's why today you see a lot of Anime that glorify that period and those ideas.

Wait a minute, you seen The Last Samurai right? Some people are going to put religion over quality of life. That's what happened with at least a portion of the people in Lybia is all I'm saying.
 
MadLib said:
Plus, there's the question of our security and economic interests. An off-hands approach to the Taliban in Afghanistan didn't do us much good at all.
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That depends on who one blames for 9/11 :)
 
ecofarm said:
Well, let me know when you are willing and capable of recognizing the logic and reason of the opposing position.
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I will admit that puts me in a bind as I am already able to do that, even though understand their position does not mean I agree with it. It is understandable that one would put humanitarian needs ahead of lives or treasure, I get that, but I think it is a fruitless act in this scenario. In south america, africa, asia, elsewhere, sure, but not in the middle east.
 
MadLib said:
I agree that their cultural change must come from within, but I don't see a problem with containing the excesses of their cultural shifts or catalyzing the process. If a group threatens to reverse progress through extreme violence, as ISIS does, then we should prevent it from doing so. If people are trying to change their own culture but cannot due to a dictator (Syria and Libya), we should help them.

Plus, there's the question of our security and economic interests. An off-hands approach to the Taliban in Afghanistan didn't do us much good at all.
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When the arab spring happened, I was a huge supporter and if something similar happens in Iraq, I will again be supportive, but that needs to happen first or else we will just continuously trade one dictator for another and make no real gains.
 
Hamster Buddha said:
Well, in almost every respect, Japan was better off at the time of this than they were during WW2 (or before hand to be more specific). But to this man, that didn't matter. The existence to him was a hollow one. This sentiment was by the way shared by Japanese people as a whole, who were awakened to their heritage, and didn't want to repeat the mistakes of the Mejii period. It's why today you see a lot of Anime that glorify that period and those ideas.

Wait a minute, you seen The Last Samurai right? Some people are going to put religion over quality of life. That's what happened with at least a portion of the people in Lybia is all I'm saying.
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I think I agree with you??
 
tacomancer said:
When the arab spring happened, I was a huge supporter and if something similar happens in Iraq, I will again be supportive, but that needs to happen first or else we will just continuously trade one dictator for another and make no real gains.
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We can presume the victims of genocide protest.
 
tacomancer said:
When the arab spring happened, I was a huge supporter and if something similar happens in Iraq, I will again be supportive, but that needs to happen first or else we will just continuously trade one dictator for another and make no real gains.
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Actually, we'll trade one dictator for many Islamic jihadists, and have blatant losses! Which is in fact what we have all over the region, so, destabilisation is the policy, or, years of incompetence. Whichever makes one feel better.
 
ecofarm said:
We can presume the victims of genocide protest.
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When they reach critical mass and we clearly designate them from embedded guerrillas, then we can help them because they are willing to be helped. Some people are always going to be screwed over, i hate it, but I am also a realist, we cant afford this war and we cant afford to piss money and lives away on a task that cannot realistically be accomplished (or a lot of the social spending for those who want to jump on that and derail)

as a nation we should be seeking ways to maximize return on our investments and this is a failed investment. if that situation ever changes, I will have reason to change my opinion.
 
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