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Thread: Navy reverses Bible ban

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    Re: Navy reverses Bible ban

    Quote Originally Posted by Cryptic View Post
    You are missing the core concept: The practice of placing a religous based motto on currency was found to be historical and thus, permissible. Likewise, the practice of allowing Gideons to place bibles in Navy lodges is, in all probability historical (practice been in place since prior to the 1950s)
    Since when is "people have done this before" a justification for doing it?
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    Re: Navy reverses Bible ban

    Quote Originally Posted by Deuce View Post
    Are you telling me you honestly believe putting Korans in military lodgings would not stir a controversy?


    Granted. Personally, I have no issue with it.... nobody has to read the thing.

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    Re: Navy reverses Bible ban

    Quote Originally Posted by Kobie View Post
    So why can't they buy their own bibles?
    Why do you have a problem with a private orginization donating Bibles to the troops?
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    Re: Navy reverses Bible ban

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    Why do you have a problem with a private orginization donating Bibles to the troops?
    I don't. My question was more geared toward the idea that such things should be provided (and others not) simply because the military is predominantly Christian. Goshin later clarified his statement.
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    Re: Navy reverses Bible ban

    Quote Originally Posted by Deuce View Post
    Since when is "people have done this before" a justification for doing it?
    Since both the U.S. Supreme Court and numerous appellate courts have made numerous rulings in this area.

    Those rulings clearly state that "People have done this before" can be a justification for doing something- retaining religous mottos on coins, wordings in the Pledge, place names, and crosses on public land.

    As with the coins, the Pledge, place names, crosses on public land, the common test for bibles in navy hotel rooms should be:
    A- have People have done that before? and
    B- is it historical (practice initiated before 1950?

    If the answers to both "A" and "B" are "Yes", then the practice is allowed to continue. Its not a revolutionary concept and does a very good job of balancing the interests of both parties.
    Last edited by Cryptic; 08-16-14 at 12:46 PM.

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    Re: Navy reverses Bible ban

    As long as I'm not paying for the Bibles, I'm all for it. It's a public service.

    Might be tempted to scrape up some money and see about whether or not they'll do the same thing with donated copies of the Eddas, but I've got better things to worry about.

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    Re: Navy reverses Bible ban

    Quote Originally Posted by Cryptic View Post
    You are missing the core concept: The practice of placing a religous based motto on currency was found to be historical and thus, permissible. Likewise, the practice of allowing Gideons to place bibles in Navy lodges is, in all probability historical (practice been in place since prior to the 1950s)
    If that logic had any base in reality, especially in the military, there would be a lot of things we would still be doing that we don't do anymore. Why don't we do them anymore? Because we have found many traditions to be sexist, cruel or hazing. Again, for some reason religion seems to be the one thing we can't shake. We can criticize all other ridiculous traditions, but for some reason religion always gets a pass. Putting bibles in desk drawers of hotel rooms is a way of proselytizng that religion and should not be allowed. No more then religious members or salesman are allowed to go door to door on base and sell things.
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    Re: Navy reverses Bible ban

    Quote Originally Posted by Cryptic View Post
    Since both the U.S. Supreme Court and numerous appellate courts have made numerous rulings in this area.

    Those rulings clearly state that "People have done this before" can be a justification for doing something- retaining religous mottos on coins, wordings in the Pledge, place names, and crosses on public land.

    As with the coins, the Pledge, place names, crosses on public land, the common test for bibles in navy hotel rooms should be:
    A- have People have done that before? and
    B- is it historical (practice initiated before 1950?

    If the answers to both "A" and "B" are "Yes", then the practice is allowed to continue. Its not a revolutionary concept and does a very good job of balancing the interests of both parties.
    And again, those rulings were based on currency and documents that obviously are part of our history as a nation. The bible is not even comparable to the mention of god or currency or in documents. Stoping he placement of bibles in hotel rooms is not even close to the same thing as removing all currency ever printed and having it reprinted without the word god on it.. Or re-writing all historical documents with the word god in it. The inclusion of which is just ludicrous.......
    - There was never a good war, or a bad peace.
    - Idealistically, everything should work as you planed it to. Realistically, it depends on how idealistic you are as to the measure of success.
    - Better to be a pessimist before, and an optimist afterwords.

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    Re: Navy reverses Bible ban

    Quote Originally Posted by Kobie View Post
    I don't. My question was more geared toward the idea that such things should be provided (and others not) simply because the military is predominantly Christian. Goshin later clarified his statement.
    The government doesn't provide Bibles to the troops. Since a private orginization donates the Bibles what's the big deal?
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    Re: Navy reverses Bible ban

    Quote Originally Posted by Capster78 View Post
    Or re-writing all historical documents with the word god in it. The inclusion of which is just ludicrous.......
    Sigh, the ease or difficulty of removing something played no part in the Supreme Court decisions. Rather, they reached a very elegent compromise for both sides:
    - If the religous references were before the 1950s, they stay as historical cultural statements
    -If not, they go

    So far, the compromise has worked very well: Recent ten commandment monuments have been removed, while crosses erected in the 1920s have stayed. Also, the Supreme Court has recentlty ruled that historical religous references can be even be kept in public schoools- but that they needed to be very historical. A buildling built in say, the 1960s was not historical enough
    Quote Originally Posted by Capster78 View Post
    Stoping he placement of bibles in hotel rooms is not even close to the same thing as removing all currency ever printed and having it reprinted without the word god on it
    Do you really think that removing the motto "In God We Trust" from nearly all U.S. currency in circulation would be that hard? Heck, just simply stop minting or printing currency wth the motto. Both bills and coins have life spans. Also, and what about the crosses on public lands- would it be too hard to remove them as well?
    Last edited by Cryptic; 08-16-14 at 04:53 PM.

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