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Thread: Navy reverses Bible ban

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    Re: Navy reverses Bible ban

    Quote Originally Posted by Manc Skipper View Post
    The government shouldn't be facilitating proselytising by any religion. You want to read a bible, bring one with you, or go to the Library's religion section.
    They aren't facilitating, they're simply allowing donations.

    So far as I can see it would only become an issue if they didn't allow donations of another religious book for the same purpose.
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    Re: Navy reverses Bible ban

    Personally hoping that the Saudis donate 300 million Korans to all the US hotels rooms currently receiving free donated bibles, and watch the FAUX News **** storm. It would be most amusing to watch the SCOTUS force any hotel chain with US rooms to accept all privately donated religious texts including scientology, jw'ism and mormonism. Every room would need an 8ft bookcase.

    I also wonder about all the people in this thread who have no problem with these books in the Navy Lodges and their feelings about privately donated 10 Commandments monuments on courthouse lawns. We already know what SCOTUS thinks of them.

    These bibles, or any other religious texts, are an equivalent to the monuments. It does not matter that they are donated.
    Why stop at bibles and Lodges? Why not hand out privately donated crucifixes in basic? You don't have to wear them! Even if 80% of your buddies in the outfit do chose to.

    from Gideons.ca
    Why We Distribute Bibles

    Simply stated, we believe that the Bible contains a message of hope and benefit from God for every person on earth and our objective is to share that message through personal witnessing and placing Bibles and New Testaments into people’s hands. We believe that God’s Word can change lives.
    The Gideons were donating to public schools but that was shot down by SCOTUS.

    This is proselytizing pure and simple. And the government is complicit by allowing them in every room of the Lodges. Maybe there should a 'reading room' where all religious texts and anti-religious texts are located, so interested parties could find what they need. We all know that will never fly because this is not about freedom of religion, it is about freedom to proselytize. Proselytize the religion of the majority.

    The very reason for the existence of the 1st is to prevent proselytizing to, or worse forcible conversion of, the minorities to the majority religion.
    There are plenty of brutal historical examples which lead to the creation of the 1st so we don't repeat the mistakes of the past.
    Last edited by RogueWarrior; 08-18-14 at 04:05 AM.
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  3. #233
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    Re: Navy reverses Bible ban

    Quote Originally Posted by spud_meister View Post
    What if a group started donating Communist Manifesto's to the Navy. Would anyone object if they were placed in rooms?
    Yeah, let's put one in every room.
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    Re: Navy reverses Bible ban

    Quote Originally Posted by RogueWarrior View Post
    Personally hoping that the Saudis donate 300 million Korans to all the US hotels rooms currently receiving free donated bibles, and watch the FAUX News **** storm. It would be most amusing to watch the SCOTUS force any hotel chain with US rooms to accept all privately donated religious texts including scientology, jw'ism and mormonism. Every room would need an 8ft bookcase.
    You're off the point here. It's been noted by both sides that the private hotels can accept or reject any religious material they want for their rooms. We're discussing specifically government run facilities, using the Navy Lodge as a primary example.

    I also wonder about all the people in this thread who have no problem with these books in the Navy Lodges and their feelings about privately donated 10 Commandments monuments on courthouse lawns. We already know what SCOTUS thinks of them.
    Do you have a link to where a privately donated one was declared unconstitional? The only ones I was aware of were local city and county purchased ones, or ones ordered by the local level but then the seller never bother to charge them

    This is proselytizing pure and simple.
    No one has said otherwise. It is not the Navy Lodge doing so but the Giddions. But indeed it is proselytizing.

    ... this is not about freedom of religion, it is about freedom to proselytize. Proselytize the religion of the majority.
    Freedom to proselytize is part of freedom of religion. The minority religions are quite free to do the same thing.

    The very reason for the existence of the 1st is to prevent proselytizing to, or worse forcible conversion of, the minorities to the majority religion.
    There are plenty of brutal historical examples which lead to the creation of the 1st so we don't repeat the mistakes of the past.
    You are correct of course on the forced conversion. However let's look at the definition of proselytizing:

    pros·e·lyt·ize ˈpräsələˌtīz/
    verb

    convert or attempt to convert (someone) from one religion, belief, or opinion to another.
    "the program did have a tremendous evangelical effect, proselytizing many"
    synonyms: evangelize, convert, save, redeem, win over, preach (to), recruit, act as a missionary
    "I'm not here to proselytize"

    advocate or promote (a belief or course of action).
    "Davis wanted to share his concept and proselytize his ideas"
    synonyms: promote, advocate, champion, advance, further, spread, proclaim, peddle, preach, endorse, urge, recommend, boost
    "he wanted to proselytize his ideas"
    We all proselytize all the time trying to change people's minds about this or that. There is no protection from this. It's a part of normal social interaction. We have our protections from being forced to change our minds and we have our freedoms to walk away from those who are trying to get us to change our positions. Proselytizing is as much a part of our freedom of speech as our freedom of religion.
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    Re: Navy reverses Bible ban

    Quote Originally Posted by Crosscheck View Post
    Is it really that silly. You deny my gift of the Wiccan bible to your rooms and I bet you I will have a line of lawyers waiting in line to sue them. Especially a government facility.

    Am just sayn.
    No, son......it would just sit there. I would not go through the expense of a lawyer for such nonsense.

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    Re: Navy reverses Bible ban

    Quote Originally Posted by TheDemSocialist View Post
    So the state should give you every religious book?
    I have suggested no such thing.

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    Re: Navy reverses Bible ban

    Quote Originally Posted by maquiscat View Post
    If you can find a Wiccan Bible, I'll be highly impressed since such a creature doesn't exist, anymore than an Islamic Bible exists. For that matter I'd be impressed if you could find a mass produced Book of Shadows. A real one, not a notebook dressed up for making your own or the "how to" book that uses the name as a title.



    Maybe you ought to rethink that statement. Either it is too all inclusive or you are making an assumption that you are not putting out. Are you saying that a person who is working for the government, military or otherwise, should not even be provided a bible from the church that they attend? Are you insinuating that a government working shouldn't even be associated with a religion maybe?



    That is an assumption that cannot be currently proven as no other organization provides a holy texts book to hotels.
    You are correct. The Gideons started the tradition of donating the bibles somewhere in the neighborhood of 1898. No other organization has followed suit.

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    Re: Navy reverses Bible ban

    Quote Originally Posted by TheDemSocialist View Post
    I think I made it pretty clear. A government shouldn't be involved in no way with a certain religion, period.
    You have no coherent understanding of the First Amendment whatsoever. It does not ban government from being involved in religion. It merely prevents the government from declaring an official state religion and making us a clerical state.

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    Re: Navy reverses Bible ban

    Quote Originally Posted by KevinKohler View Post
    He gives a **** either way? They can put dictionaries in all quarters, too. Doesn't mean anyone is obligated to read the ****.
    Very true. It wouldn't matter to me if a bible was placed right on the bed of any hotel room I stayed in. I would simply put it in the desk drawer and leave it there.

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    Re: Navy reverses Bible ban

    Quote Originally Posted by Manc Skipper View Post
    The government shouldn't be facilitating proselytising by any religion. You want to read a bible, bring one with you, or go to the Library's religion section.
    You have the same ignorance of the US constitution as demsocialist does.

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