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Thread: Navy reverses Bible ban

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    Re: Navy reverses Bible ban

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    Everything you say here is accurate, but still manages to miss where this is problematic. At issue is that with a bible in these rooms, it can appear as the government endorsing a particular religion. That would be a nono. Since from my reading the eventual outcome is not known, replacing the bibles, which may have to be removed again later, seems kinda silly. Probably should have waited for a final determination before deciding to do this.
    That's because you do not understand the first amendment to the US constitution. Banning the bible even in government rooms is a violation of that amendment.

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    Re: Navy reverses Bible ban

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    So? It shouldn't matter if they are or are not there. As with any religion or really anything that you wish to read, you should bring your own. Just because people are used to something doesn't mean they have a right to it.
    If any hotel chain had a practice of banning the Gideon bibles in their rooms, such as Travelodge in the UK currently does, I would personally boycott that chain.

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    Re: Navy reverses Bible ban

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    It doesn't matter if the government is providing them or not, the government still appears to be endorsing that religion, whether intentionally or not. When it comes to the military especially, appearance does matter.
    Who cares about appearance? The reality is that the bibles are donated. You cannot discriminate merely based on perception.

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    Re: Navy reverses Bible ban

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    Just because you don't see it as promoting religion, specifically Christianity, doesn't mean that it isn't/doesn't. Other people do not see things the same way, particularly if they aren't Christian.

    It would be better to simply have those who want the Bibles ask for them rather than have them in the rooms, assuming most people would want them. Saves any questions as to whether it could appear to be promoting Christianity.
    You know, how about you direct your comments to others for awhile? I have made my case for why having the Bibles in the rooms is not a violation of the First Amendment and does not promote anything other than a liberty. You have yet to offer any argument of any kind to rebut that but just keep reciting the same tired phrase over and over saying the same thing while offering no other rationale for it other than YOU see it as promoting religion. I am 100% in favor of your requesting a room without a Gideon Bible in it if it is that important to you. How about you let other folks enjoy the convenience of having the Bible there should they choose to take advantage of that? And then we can both be happy.
    "I think the best way of doing good to the poor, is not making them easy in poverty, but leading or driving them out of it." --Benjamin Franklin 1776

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    Re: Navy reverses Bible ban

    Quote Originally Posted by Capster78 View Post
    The big deal is the separation of church and state. The government can't be seen as a device to push a particular religion.
    Your problem is that there is no phrase: "separation of church and state" in the US constitution. You apparently do not understand that the 1st amendment merely guarantees that the US government cannot declare an official state religion. We cannot become a clerical state. It does not call for banning religion in government buildings, government events, etc.

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    Re: Navy reverses Bible ban

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    Either they do all or none. They cannot do both. If anyone else asked them to put any books or even just pamphlets/papers in their rooms (provided by some private party), so long as they cannot be deemed as "offensive" (something that basically couldn't be sold openly in the NEX), they would have to do it as long as they put the Bibles there. Otherwise they are opening themselves up to a lawsuit that they have little chance of winning.

    If you people on the left had your way there would be no mention of God at all. That is what is so sad.
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    Re: Navy reverses Bible ban

    Quote Originally Posted by AlbqOwl View Post
    There is nothing 'promotional' about a Gideon Bible in a Hotel room. It is a ministry the Gideons have been doing for more than a 100 years. And anybody who would be offended by seeing a Gideon Bible in their hotel room deserves to be offended. It would be much more promoting the Bibles or give that appearance if the desk clerk had to inform each guest that a Bible would be made available to him/her if asked for.
    You know you keep making this false point. Even if it were to get to a point where the Giddion bibles were no longer in the rooms, there is nothing that make it an automatic default that clerks have to inform people of their availability. They can simply say nothing, not have a bible in the room, and then, if asked, they can then hand one over. I overall support your position, but this is an improper assumption.
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    Re: Navy reverses Bible ban

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    Either they do all or none. They cannot do both. If anyone else asked them to put any books or even just pamphlets/papers in their rooms (provided by some private party), so long as they cannot be deemed as "offensive" (something that basically couldn't be sold openly in the NEX), they would have to do it as long as they put the Bibles there. Otherwise they are opening themselves up to a lawsuit that they have little chance of winning.
    That is the problem which I could see happening.

    Jim Jones of the infamous Jonestown had tax exempt status by the IRS and would have qualified to put his crap in rooms.

    I think we are just opening a big can of worms.

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    Re: Navy reverses Bible ban

    Quote Originally Posted by AlbqOwl View Post
    I really feel bad for you that you have so much problem with a book being present in a hotel room.
    I have a problem with the intolerance that a lot of readers of that book keep on spewing. I do not think revering a book with so many antiquated ridiculous and down right evil punishments and actions in it as something to be admired or to be followed/revered.

    But that is a different discussion and I realize is not the right or correct place for that discussion, so I will not go into that any further.

    Fact is that unwanted documentation is something I think every hotel should avoid. The same goes with torah, qu'aran, etc. etc. etc.
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    Re: Navy reverses Bible ban

    Quote Originally Posted by maquiscat View Post
    You know you keep making this false point. Even if it were to get to a point where the Giddion bibles were no longer in the rooms, there is nothing that make it an automatic default that clerks have to inform people of their availability. They can simply say nothing, not have a bible in the room, and then, if asked, they can then hand one over. I overall support your position, but this is an improper assumption.
    The assumption is not improper when that is exactly what the Navy was doing. Did you read any of the opening posts of the thread?

    But you are correct. The Gideons could be told to take a hike and it wouldn't be mentioned at the front desk. No harm. No foul. Or they could accept the gracious and selfless gift of the Gideons, say nothing at the front desk, and at least some people would be blessed by that small act of thoughtfulness. And whichever way it goes, what possible difference would it make to those who wouldn't allow the Bibles if they were in charge?
    "I think the best way of doing good to the poor, is not making them easy in poverty, but leading or driving them out of it." --Benjamin Franklin 1776

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