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Thread: Navy reverses Bible ban

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    Re: Navy reverses Bible ban

    Quote Originally Posted by Peter King View Post
    The navy however should not pay for bibles or automatically provide them for everyone serving in the navy.
    With the possible exception of chaplains that is not the case. This thread is about bibles that are provided for free to the Navy Lodges. Since the Korans and Torahs and other holy texts are part of the chapalin's jobs, that is a reasonable expense. You are correct that providing any of these books to the servicemembers at large would not be proper use of military money.
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    Re: Navy reverses Bible ban

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    I believe that Bibles exist. Are you of the failed notion that I believe Bibles are a figment of people's imagination? Personally, I'm not offended by having a Bible in the room, but I can see how others, especially those who have a different actual religion, can be offended because they may see it as providing religious texts for a religion but not for their particular religion, which is unfair, no matter who actually paid for those books. "God" or rather the "Christian God" is not the offensive thing here. The apparent endorsement of the Christian religious beliefs by the Navy Lodge, a government run entity, over any other religions is the offensive thing here.
    the navy isn't providing the bibles nor are they paying for them. they are donated free of charge.
    nothing is stopping them from bringings their own religious documentation.

    the fact that no other organization does this for other religions is not the navy issue.

    Just because someone doesn't have the resources to give out religious books to every single Navy Lodge doesn't mean that their concerns about presentation of another religion should be dismissed. That is ludicrous. As I said in a different post, if it were a political book, and only a specific political book giving only one single political viewpoint, put in every single room in the Navy Lodges, it would be seen as the Navy endorsing that particular view.
    if they want their views to be there then they can pay for it just like the gideons do. nope because the navy can reject political material. if the navy didn't buy it and isn't pushing it on people then the navy is not endorsing it.

    What about this book? Would this be acceptable in every single room in a Navy Lodge?



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    Those book is not religious material it would be up to the navy if they allowed it or not and there is nothing anyone could do if they rejected it.

    If it would be wrong to put any single one of these books into every single room in the Navy Lodge, then it should also be wrong to put any single religious book/text into every single room in the Navy Lodge because it is easily seen as an endorsement of that viewpoint or religion, even if that is not the intent.
    nope because those books are not religious in nature therefore they are not protected. they are simply opinion pieces in which the navy doesn't have to provide or even allow to be distributed.

    they could be rejected for any number of reasons.

  3. #163
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    Re: Navy reverses Bible ban

    Quote Originally Posted by Peter King View Post
    There is nothing silly about only giving a bible to people who specifically ask for one. That would be the easiest way to prevent people taking offense at promotional bibles in rooms.
    There is nothing 'promotional' about a Gideon Bible in a Hotel room. It is a ministry the Gideons have been doing for more than a 100 years. And anybody who would be offended by seeing a Gideon Bible in their hotel room deserves to be offended. It would be much more promoting the Bibles or give that appearance if the desk clerk had to inform each guest that a Bible would be made available to him/her if asked for.
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    Re: Navy reverses Bible ban

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    Why would they have to inform them? Simply have it available as a reading option. And put that as an amenity "books available to read". Is that really so hard? Or simply give it to the library or wherever any particular base may keep a book collection (most have one somewhere) and tell guests they can find a Bible there. But by having a single type of book available in every single room, that is promoting that book. No one would be arguing differently if this was something like Hard Choices by Hillary Clinton or Fed Up! by Rick Perry, having only one of those books in every single room in a Navy sponsored hotel. It wouldn't be allowed. Why? Because it would appear that the Navy was supporting only one of those particular political figures. It doesn't matter if someone else paid for those books, donated those books to the Navy Lodge.
    Doing a kindness to people is not promoting anything so we'll just have to disagree on that.
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    Re: Navy reverses Bible ban

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    Because the Giddeons donate those Bibles.
    Indeed. Are Bibles normally in Navy quarters because the Navy buys them, or are they donated by a third party?

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    Re: Navy reverses Bible ban

    Probably would have been better to make as bedside issue, "How to Win Friends and Influence People."

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    Re: Navy reverses Bible ban

    Quote Originally Posted by Capster78 View Post
    Why stop at the Koran and the Bible.. Hell.. place the Analects of Confucius, Ginza Rba, Holy Books of Thelema, Tipitaka, Dhammapada, Akilattirattu Ammanai, Arul Nool, Zend-Avesta, Hebrew Bible, Talmud, Gospel of Thomas, Guru Granth Sahib, Homeric Hymns, Theogony, Golden Verses of Pythagoras, Orphic Poems, Holy Piby, Kebra Negast, Royal Parchment Scroll of Black Supremacy, Dianetics: The Modern Science of Mental Health, The Barton Cylinder.....

    I could go on and on......

    Then perhaps we can bankrupt our military by providing 2,000 holy books into every service members room..... Or... Just maybe, we can be sensible and let service men and women purchase and practice religion on their own.
    A nice reductio ad absurdum argument, but few other religions would see any value in just dropping their religious texts off in lodge rooms.

    Merely making a religious text available does little or nothing toward enlightening anyone. I respect the motivation, but putting Bibles in Navy lodges and hotel rooms is probably not a good use of resources.

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    Re: Navy reverses Bible ban

    Quote Originally Posted by ludin View Post
    the navy isn't providing the bibles nor are they paying for them. they are donated free of charge.
    nothing is stopping them from bringings their own religious documentation.

    the fact that no other organization does this for other religions is not the navy issue.



    if they want their views to be there then they can pay for it just like the gideons do. nope because the navy can reject political material. if the navy didn't buy it and isn't pushing it on people then the navy is not endorsing it.



    Those book is not religious material it would be up to the navy if they allowed it or not and there is nothing anyone could do if they rejected it.



    nope because those books are not religious in nature therefore they are not protected. they are simply opinion pieces in which the navy doesn't have to provide or even allow to be distributed.

    they could be rejected for any number of reasons.
    The bible and other religious books have no more protection in this case than any other book. The bible is just as much an opinion piece as all those books mentioned. Plus, nothing can be said about those books mentioned that make them automatically more offensive than the bible depending on the person. In reality it is up to the navy if any books are allowed up until someone makes an issue of it, then it is up to the court.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

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    Re: Navy reverses Bible ban

    Quote Originally Posted by AlbqOwl View Post
    Doing a kindness to people is not promoting anything so we'll just have to disagree on that.
    Yes it can be. Not everyone sees giving out bibles or other religious info/texts as "doing a kindness".
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

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    Re: Navy reverses Bible ban

    Quote Originally Posted by AlbqOwl View Post
    There is nothing 'promotional' about a Gideon Bible in a Hotel room. It is a ministry the Gideons have been doing for more than a 100 years. And anybody who would be offended by seeing a Gideon Bible in their hotel room deserves to be offended. It would be much more promoting the Bibles or give that appearance if the desk clerk had to inform each guest that a Bible would be made available to him/her if asked for.
    No one said the clerks would have to inform each and every person that they were available. Just have them available and tell the guests certain book selections are available upon request.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

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