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Thread: Navy reverses Bible ban

  1. #121
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    Re: Navy reverses Bible ban

    I like how it only took four posts to show how there was never any such ban on bibles. It is still inappropriate for the navy to be making any moves to endorse a religious perspective, even one so small as this.
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    Re: Navy reverses Bible ban

    Quote Originally Posted by AlbqOwl View Post
    Okay what is the detriment? Please spell out how what the Gideons are allowed to do is harming anybody when anybody else who chose to do so could do the same thing?
    The Gideons are permitted to leave their tree-murdering propaganda in an act of breathtaking patronising condescension. They presume that their message is needed if not wanted, where it is not. In this case, their activity is by default endorsed by the government.
    If people have need of such a pubilcation they can bring it with them.
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    Re: Navy reverses Bible ban

    Quote Originally Posted by Manc Skipper View Post
    The Gideons are permitted to leave their tree-murdering propaganda in an act of breathtaking patronising condescension. They presume that their message is needed if not wanted, where it is not. In this case, their activity is by default endorsed by the government.
    If people have need of such a pubilcation they can bring it with them.
    In other words you can't come up with a single way that anybody is being coerced, harmed, or suffers detrimentally about anything. Do have a nice day.
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  4. #124
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    Re: Navy reverses Bible ban

    Quote Originally Posted by Capster78 View Post
    Why stop at the Koran and the Bible.. Hell.. place the Analects of Confucius, Ginza Rba, Holy Books of Thelema, Tipitaka, Dhammapada, Akilattirattu Ammanai, Arul Nool, Zend-Avesta, Hebrew Bible, Talmud, Gospel of Thomas, Guru Granth Sahib, Homeric Hymns, Theogony, Golden Verses of Pythagoras, Orphic Poems, Holy Piby, Kebra Negast, Royal Parchment Scroll of Black Supremacy, Dianetics: The Modern Science of Mental Health, The Barton Cylinder.....

    I could go on and on......

    Then perhaps we can bankrupt our military by providing 2,000 holy books into every service members room
    ..... Or... Just maybe, we can be sensible and let service men and women purchase and practice religion on their own.
    Since the Navy does not pay for these bibles nor does any other government agency your statement has failed.

    Quote Originally Posted by Capster78 View Post
    The big deal is the separation of church and state. The government can't be seen as a device to push a particular religion.
    If the government were to refuse to allow any other religious group to place holy books in the rooms, then the argument could be made for them pushing a particular religion. But no other group is doing what the Giddions are doing. Therefore there is no conflict nor a pushing of a single religion.

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    The basic design of currency would still need to be changed. That costs money to do. It has not been worth that money, particularly since it has already been ruled to have very little significant relation to a particular religion, and much more historical value.
    This is an invalid argument. Since we've already spent money several times to change the design of the currency, both coin and paper, there is no reason that the phrase "In God We Trust" could not have been removed during such a change. I am not arguing that it should be removed, just that the expense argument was rendered invalid by the currency actually being changed.

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    We don't actually know now do we? How do we know others haven't requested something be put into the rooms in Navy Lodges and they were ignored?
    I'm pretty sure that would set off a lawsuit, particularly in this day and age.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kobie View Post
    I should start a petition to have a copy of Dianetics put in every Navy lodge room, just to be an asshole.
    Who are you going to get to donate all those copies of Dianetics in the same manner that the Giddions donate their bibles? Or are you petitioning the Scientologists to copy the Giddions in practice?

    Quote Originally Posted by AlbqOwl View Post
    The Navy however does have a right to say yes to the Gideons because they are NOT promoting any religion by allowing people the comfort or pleasure of having access to those bibles. And in my opinion it is only the most bigoted, prejudiced, and mean spirited people who would deny them that.
    Bad argument. Regardless of whether or not the bibles are in the room, people have access to a bible.

    Quote Originally Posted by Manc Skipper View Post
    It is permitting one religion to do so, but not the thousands of others. Thus favoring the one, giving it a privileged status within the secular activity of national defense. removing Christian priviledge is not attacking it or religion.
    You haven't been reading. It's not a matter of the other religions not being permitted to do so. The other religions and even the other denominations simply haven't done so. Can you show where another religion or denomination has been denied permission to place their religious books in a similar manner to how the Giddions do it?

    Quote Originally Posted by Manc Skipper View Post
    The Royal Navy has accommodated a Satanist among its ranks. That is a side issue. The question is not refusal of an inappropriate act to some, it is permitting it to anyone. All or nothing. Offer access to all, or no-one.
    Access is there. The other religions have not taken advantage of it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Manc Skipper View Post
    They don't have to deny access to others for it to be wrong. They have given access to one, to the detriment of others.
    Having access does not require one to use it. Unless you can show otherwise then all have been given access, but only one actually used it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Manc Skipper View Post
    The Gideons are permitted to leave their tree-murdering propaganda in an act of breathtaking patronising condescension. They presume that their message is needed if not wanted, where it is not. In this case, their activity is by default endorsed by the government.
    If people have need of such a pubilcation they can bring it with them.
    For your statement to be true you need to show where others have been denied the same access. Not using access to something is not that same as being denied access.
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  5. #125
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    Re: Navy reverses Bible ban

    Quote Originally Posted by maquiscat View Post
    Who are you going to get to donate all those copies of Dianetics in the same manner that the Giddions donate their bibles? Or are you petitioning the Scientologists to copy the Giddions in practice?
    Psst ... it was a joke
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    Re: Navy reverses Bible ban

    Quote Originally Posted by Kobie View Post
    Psst ... it was a joke
    It's not always obvious! I've no visual cues, audio cues, not even a elbow poke to the ribs (nudge, nudge, wink wink).
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    Re: Navy reverses Bible ban

    Quote Originally Posted by maquiscat View Post
    It's not always obvious! I've no visual cues, audio cues, not even a elbow poke to the ribs (nudge, nudge, wink wink).
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    Re: Navy reverses Bible ban

    Quote Originally Posted by maquiscat View Post

    Bad argument. Regardless of whether or not the bibles are in the room, people have access to a bible.
    So what? If the Gideons are banned from placing the Bible in the rooms, the guests don't have the convenience of the Gideon Bible in their room without having to go ask for one. Probably the huge majority of people using the room never open the Bible that is there, but for the few who might be inclined to do so, they could be quite grateful that it is there to pick up and read as the spirit moves them. And whether somebody cares whether the Bible is there or doesn't notice it is there or never is motivated to pick it up and read it, what possible harm is it to anybody for that Bible to be in the drawer?
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  9. #129
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    Re: Navy reverses Bible ban

    Quote Originally Posted by Luftwaffe View Post
    Although FOX is stupid I've noticed this "Freedom from Religion" group poppiing up everywhere now.

    Who are these assholes? Religion was never inherently evil, only a few of its followers were (because every atheist is a saint...)
    the FFR is basically the westborough of atheism. the sole goal is to sue any mention of God in a public setting which of course is unconstitutional.
    basically they target small communities that don't have the money to fight back and they pick on high school kids and such.

    as you would and even i would define westborough church as a hate group this is a hate group with a huge angst toward Christianity.

    what they don't realize is that the constitution doesn't give freedom from religion it gives freedom of religion. basically it says that the government can't tell you how to worship or who to worship.

    this group has started to lose court cases recently as judges start enforcing the constitution.

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    Re: Navy reverses Bible ban

    Quote Originally Posted by AlbqOwl View Post
    So what? If the Gideons are banned from placing the Bible in the rooms, the guests don't have the convenience of the Gideon Bible in their room without having to go ask for one. Probably the huge majority of people using the room never open the Bible that is there, but for the few who might be inclined to do so, they could be quite grateful that it is there to pick up and read as the spirit moves them. And whether somebody cares whether the Bible is there or doesn't notice it is there or never is motivated to pick it up and read it, what possible harm is it to anybody for that Bible to be in the drawer?
    All of that is well and good, and I'm always glad when a person picks up a bible and accepts Christ. But the argument that I responded to was talking about access. One has access to a bible whether or not there is one left in the room that they are staying at.
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