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Thread: Navy reverses Bible ban

  1. #101
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    Re: Navy reverses Bible ban

    Quote Originally Posted by Kobie View Post
    Again, I didn't say it was.
    I know. Nor did I accuse you. I was just using your post to make the point mostly to affirm those who see the situation as it is and to rebut those who want to make it into some kind of unconstitutional promotion of religion.
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    Re: Navy reverses Bible ban

    Quote Originally Posted by Kobie View Post
    I should start a petition to have a copy of Dianetics put in every Navy lodge room, just to be an asshole.
    You wouldn't have to be start a petition; just fork out the cash to have the material printed and donate them to the military.
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    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    Re: Navy reverses Bible ban

    Quote Originally Posted by AlbqOwl View Post
    No it doesn't appear to be endorsing religion. All it appears to be is the tradition of the Gideons placing Bibles in hotel rooms for the use of anybody who might wish to use one. If anything it appears to be the Navy quite correctly adhering to the Constitutional mandate that the government will not interfere in any way with the free exercise of religion.
    It is permitting one religion to do so, but not the thousands of others. Thus favoring the one, giving it a privileged status within the secular activity of national defense. removing Christian priviledge is not attacking it or religion.
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  4. #104
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    Re: Navy reverses Bible ban

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    In this particular case, those people who disagree would be very wrong.
    No they aren't. This has come up in other instances similar to this one. Perception does matter. In general, it isn't going to likely be legally challenged unless you do find that the Navy Lodge refused to put other religious documents of some kind in their rooms as well, but it could happen. Right or wrong, I can see a group challenge this by simply seeing if they could get a highly controversial "religious" document put into Navy Lodge rooms or not.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

  5. #105
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    Re: Navy reverses Bible ban

    Quote Originally Posted by AlbqOwl View Post
    The government is not providing the books. It is not prohibiting the Gideons from doing so at the request of those who would like to have access to the Bibles or just because they like seeing them in the rooms.
    The government is providing the books, it is just that the government got them for free. If those individuals going to the Navy Lodge want a Bible, they can bring their own. If they don't have one, they are free to request one from the Gideons. But they do not have a right to have a Bible in their rooms, even if the Gideons gave some to the Navy Lodges to put in the rooms. They could simply explain to the Gideons why they can't do this.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

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    Re: Navy reverses Bible ban

    Quote Originally Posted by Manc Skipper View Post
    It is permitting one religion to do so, but not the thousands of others. Thus favoring the one, giving it a privileged status within the secular activity of national defense. removing Christian priviledge is not attacking it or religion.
    So show me another religion who wants to do that and was denied. Then we can have a reasoned discussion about it.
    "I think the best way of doing good to the poor, is not making them easy in poverty, but leading or driving them out of it." --Benjamin Franklin 1776

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    Re: Navy reverses Bible ban

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    The government is providing the books, it is just that the government got them for free. If those individuals going to the Navy Lodge want a Bible, they can bring their own. If they don't have one, they are free to request one from the Gideons. But they do not have a right to have a Bible in their rooms, even if the Gideons gave some to the Navy Lodges to put in the rooms. They could simply explain to the Gideons why they can't do this.
    The Navy however does have a right to say yes to the Gideons because they are NOT promoting any religion by allowing people the comfort or pleasure of having access to those bibles. And in my opinion it is only the most bigoted, prejudiced, and mean spirited people who would deny them that.
    "I think the best way of doing good to the poor, is not making them easy in poverty, but leading or driving them out of it." --Benjamin Franklin 1776

  8. #108
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    Re: Navy reverses Bible ban

    Quote Originally Posted by AlbqOwl View Post
    The Navy however does have a right to say yes to the Gideons because they are NOT promoting any religion by allowing people the comfort or pleasure of having access to those bibles. And in my opinion it is only the most bigoted, prejudiced, and mean spirited people who would deny them that.
    Not necessarily. The Navy is a part of the government and they cannot be seen to favor or promote any individual religion. By providing only Bibles in those rooms, and most likely not even having literature available for other religions, that can easily be seen from a reasonable person standpoint to be promoting a religion.

    You do not have a right to have a Bible or any other religious texts provided in your hotel room just because it "comforts" or "pleases" you, even if someone else is willing to put it there.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

  9. #109
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    Re: Navy reverses Bible ban

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    Not necessarily. The Navy is a part of the government and they cannot be seen to favor or promote any individual religion. By providing only Bibles in those rooms, and most likely not even having literature available for other religions, that can easily be seen from a reasonable person standpoint to be promoting a religion.

    You do not have a right to have a Bible or any other religious texts provided in your hotel room just because it "comforts" or "pleases" you, even if someone else is willing to put it there.
    I wonder how many different ways we can say that the Navy is not providing the Bibles in the room and is not favoring or promoting any religion by allowing the Gideons to do so before it will be understood?
    "I think the best way of doing good to the poor, is not making them easy in poverty, but leading or driving them out of it." --Benjamin Franklin 1776

  10. #110
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    Re: Navy reverses Bible ban

    Quote Originally Posted by AlbqOwl View Post
    I wonder how many different ways we can say that the Navy is not providing the Bibles in the room and is not favoring or promoting any religion by allowing the Gideons to do so before it will be understood?
    I would assume that if some organization of Muslims wanted to provide copies of the Koran for each room, it would be allowed....
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