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Thread: Michael Brown was a robbery suspect before he was shot to death, police say

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    Re: Michael Brown was a robbery suspect before he was shot to death, police say

    EDIT for post #409: "I'm not defending the guy at least not in the sense to suggest he didn't do anything wrong. I just question the "forceful act of robbery" so many are claiming happened. I don't see that in the video. I see him walk out with merchandise he very likely didn't pay for, but I don't see "robbery" here, just petty theft."
    "A fair exchange ain't no robbery." Tupac Shakur w/Digital Underground

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    Re: Michael Brown was a robbery suspect before he was shot to death, police say

    Quote Originally Posted by Objective Voice View Post
    Where's the force at the time the alleged merchandise was taken? You don't see a weapon used do you? All you see is the aggravated swipe of the box off the counter which was put back. Granted, the merchandise that was dropped on the floor and subsequently picked up by MB is clearly theft in my view since it's clear he didn't pay for it, but the "force" doesn't come until MB grabs the store clerk by his shirt collar and shoves him back against the door as he exits the store.

    I'm not defending the guy at least not in the sense to suggest he didn't do anything wrong. I just question the "forceful act of robbery" so many are claiming happened. I do see that in the video. I see him walk out with merchandise he very likely didn't pay for, but I don't see "robbery" here, just petty theft.
    Why are you hung up on a weapon? If a 6'4" 300lb dude stopped you on the street, grabbed your throat and said gimme your money. Is it robbery?

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    Re: Michael Brown was a robbery suspect before he was shot to death, police say

    Quote Originally Posted by Excon View Post
    Exiting the store with the merchandise was accomplished by force.

    Start watching @ 01:26
    Quote Originally Posted by Objective Voice View Post
    Where's the force at the time the alleged merchandise was taken? You don't see a weapon used do you? All you see is the aggravated swipe of the box off the counter which was put back. Granted, the merchandise that was dropped on the floor and subsequently picked up by MB is clearly theft in my view since it's clear he didn't pay for it, but the "force" doesn't come until MB grabs the store clerk by his shirt collar and shoves him back against the door as he exits the store.

    I'm not defending the guy at least not in the sense to suggest he didn't do anything wrong. I just question the "forceful act of robbery" so many are claiming happened. I don't see that in the video. I see him walk out with merchandise he very likely didn't pay for, but I don't see "robbery" here, just petty theft.
    I'm pretty certain I made that observation already. You're not saying anything I hadn't already pointed out. I just don't see it as robbery.

    Petty theft...

    Aggravated assault...

    But IMO, not robbery.
    "A fair exchange ain't no robbery." Tupac Shakur w/Digital Underground

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    Re: Michael Brown was a robbery suspect before he was shot to death, police say

    Quote Originally Posted by Sabanist View Post
    Why are you hung up on a weapon? If a 6'4" 300lb dude stopped you on the street, grabbed your throat and said gimme your money. Is it robbery?
    But that's forcefully taking property from me at the moment of the assault. That didn't happen in this case. The assault comes afterwards. And again, we (or should I say "I") don't know that MB didn't pay for his merchandise. (Sidenote: I couldn't hear the audio in the linked video. I could hear sound, but it was barely audible. I'll look for another version to hear what was said, but I don't hear DJ say, "I don't steal" as some have claimed.) We do see MB pick up merchandise off the floor and leave. We then see him assault the store clerk on his way out.

    So, from my perspective, it's just petty theft w/aggravated assault, but not robbery.
    "A fair exchange ain't no robbery." Tupac Shakur w/Digital Underground

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    Re: Michael Brown was a robbery suspect before he was shot to death, police say

    You are attempting to split hairs.

    He took merchandise and the clerk objected and was assaulted

    That is robbery.

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    Re: Michael Brown was a robbery suspect before he was shot to death, police say

    Quote Originally Posted by Objective Voice View Post
    You speak as if I'm defending the kid. I'm not. I'm just saying there's a lot going on with this situation that we don't know about. I've merely stated some things that are obvious:

    - The store video doesn't show Michael Brown present a weapon of any sort, but it clearly shows him grabbing the store clerk by his collar and then leaving the store with merchandise in hand.

    - We see Michael Brown at the counter with said merchandise, but we don't see if he actually paid for said merchandise. The assumption then, rightfully so, is he walked out of the without paying for the merchandise after assaulting the store clerk = theft (or robbery).
    You're on solid ground thus far

    Quote Originally Posted by Objective Voice View Post
    - The police who stopped Michael Brown and Dorian Johnson didn't know they'd allegedly robbed a convenient store before stopping them. So, the question that really should be asked at this point is what was the probably cause for stopping them? Jaywalking? We'll get to that in a second...

    - We don't know why these two young adult males got into an altercation with the police any more than we know why they were stopped other than the fact that they were walking down the street presumably blocking traffic. But if that were the case, why didn't the police simply flash their police lights, get on their PA system and tell them to clear they way? Makes perfect sense to me.
    Now you're not. He didn't stop them at first by anyone's account. He simply pulled up and told them to get out of the street. At that point he didn't know about the robbery. Then, by the accomplice's account the cop started to leave and then reversed and came back to them. This is where, according to what the friend of the officer's wife said on the radio, he was notified of the robbery and realized these two were the suspects.

    No, we don't know that for sure, but it fits with what we do know for sure thus far.

    Quote Originally Posted by Objective Voice View Post
    - We don't know why the police fought with Dorian Johnson or how/why shots were fired inside the police car.

    I could presume that Michael Brown began to run because of the incident at the store, but it's also very possible he ran because he heard gun shots coming from the direction of the police car where his friend and the police where wrestling about with each other.

    In the end, Michael Brown did halt w/his hands up and was shot. The question people rightfully are asking is "Why?".
    Yes, we have a pretty good idea of why the struggle in the car. The accomplice says it in his statement before the camera, he ran (the accomplice) immediately when the cop tried to open his door and it was "bumped" closed, The officer then grabbed Brown to keep him from fleeing, the officer was still in the vehicle reaching out. That's when the struggle ensued and a whole lot of unknowns.

    We do not know for certain that Brown surrendered. He may well have turned around and raised his hands, but he also may have charged the officer right after that.

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    Re: Michael Brown was a robbery suspect before he was shot to death, police say

    Quote Originally Posted by Sabanist View Post
    You are attempting to split hairs.

    He took merchandise and the clerk objected and was assaulted

    That is robbery.
    Indeed, and what's called strong arm robbery to boot.

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    Re: Michael Brown was a robbery suspect before he was shot to death, police say

    Quote Originally Posted by clownboy View Post
    You're on solid ground thus far



    Now you're not. He didn't stop them at first by anyone's account. He simply pulled up and told them to get out of the street. At that point he didn't know about the robbery. Then, by the accomplice's account the cop started to leave and then reversed and came back to them. This is where, according to what the friend of the officer's wife said on the radio, he was notified of the robbery and realized these two were the suspects.

    No, we don't know that for sure, but it fits with what we do know for sure thus far.



    Yes, we have a pretty good idea of why the struggle in the car. The accomplice says it in his statement before the camera, he ran (the accomplice) immediately when the cop tried to open his door and it was "bumped" closed, The officer then grabbed Brown to keep him from fleeing, the officer was still in the vehicle reaching out. That's when the struggle ensued and a whole lot of unknowns.

    We do not know for certain that Brown surrendered. He may well have turned around and raised his hands, but he also may have charged the officer right after that.
    Thanks for clarifying things. The events on the scene are starting to come more into focus for me.
    Last edited by Objective Voice; 08-21-14 at 10:22 PM.
    "A fair exchange ain't no robbery." Tupac Shakur w/Digital Underground

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    Re: Michael Brown was a robbery suspect before he was shot to death, police say

    Quote Originally Posted by Objective Voice View Post
    I'm pretty certain I made that observation already. You're not saying anything I hadn't already pointed out. I just don't see it as robbery.

    Petty theft...

    Aggravated assault...

    But IMO, not robbery.
    I am pointing out why you are wrong
    His theft was accomplished by force.
    Had force not been involved, then it would have been shoplifting.

    You don't like the law? Change it.
    “The law is reason, free from passion.”
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    Re: Michael Brown was a robbery suspect before he was shot to death, police say

    Quote Originally Posted by Sabanist View Post
    You are attempting to split hairs.

    He took merchandise and the clerk objected and was assaulted

    That is robbery.
    Quote Originally Posted by clownboy View Post
    Indeed, and what's called strong arm robbery to boot.
    Alright, I can buy that. Describing the situation as you have and tying to two separate events together in sequence makes sense. He did take merchandise he clearly didn't pay for and assaulted the store clerk on his way out.

    You see, robbery to me is a forceful act that takes place in a singular moment, i.e., I pull out a gun and demand money from you or the register; confront you in an aggravated way and demand your personal property. Clearly, MB stole store merchandise, but the forceful act didn't come until later. In my mind, the two events didn't tie together. But when the assault (2nd action) is tied to the theft (1st action), I can see the strong arm robbery here.

    So, strong arm robbery it is.
    "A fair exchange ain't no robbery." Tupac Shakur w/Digital Underground

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