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Thread: Michael Brown was a robbery suspect before he was shot to death, police say

  1. #401
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    Re: Michael Brown was a robbery suspect before he was shot to death, police say

    Quote Originally Posted by danarhea View Post
    Robbery? What robbery. Brown paid for those cigars.

    Wow. What a ridiculous claim.
    His cohort already admitted that it was a robbery.
    The store owner was willing to press charges,

    And according to the cohort and as seen in the video, the box of cigars given to him by Brown, he put back on the counter and stated he didn't steal.
    Which shows that the cohort knew Brown was stealing.

    Why are you so willing to buy into such bs?
    “The law is reason, free from passion.”
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    Re: Michael Brown was a robbery suspect before he was shot to death, police say

    Quote Originally Posted by Objective Voice View Post
    You speak as if I'm defending the kid. I'm not. I'm just saying there's a lot going on with this situation that we don't know about. I've merely stated some things that are obvious:

    - The store video doesn't show Michael Brown present a weapon of any sort, but it clearly shows him grabbing the store clerk by his collar and then leaving the store with merchandise in hand.

    - We see Michael Brown at the counter with said merchandise, but we don't see if he actually paid for said merchandise. The assumption then, rightfully so, is he walked out of the without paying for the merchandise after assaulting the store clerk = theft (or robbery).

    - The police who stopped Michael Brown and Dorian Johnson didn't know they'd allegedly robbed a convenient store before stopping them. So, the question that really should be asked at this point is what was the probably cause for stopping them? Jaywalking? We'll get to that in a second...

    - We don't know why these two young adult males got into an altercation with the police any more than we know why they were stopped other than the fact that they were walking down the street presumably blocking traffic. But if that were the case, why didn't the police simply flash their police lights, get on their PA system and tell them to clear they way? Makes perfect sense to me.

    - We don't know why the police fought with Dorian Johnson (EDIT: or was it Michael Johnson) or how/why shots were fired inside the police car.

    I could presume that Michael Brown began to run because of the incident at the store, but it's also very possible he ran because he heard gun shots coming from the direction of the police car where his friend and the police where wrestling about with each other.

    In the end, Michael Brown did halt w/his hands up and was shot. The question people rightfully are asking is "Why?".
    As more information comes out about what happened in this case, I must admit I'm leaning more towards self-defense for the officer than murder and here's why:

    1. The fact that the police officer had a physical altercation with one of the suspects (according to reports it was Michael Brown) on two occasions: a) with the police car door being push back unto the officer, and b) when shots were fired inside the police car as the officer and the suspect fought.

    2. The size (and strength) of the suspect. Michael Brown was a big boy for an 18 yr old kid!

    3. If the police officer was alone while having to deal with two violent suspects, it's quite possible he had some difficulty dealing with both of them. From all accounts, it would appear the office apprehended one suspect (Dorian Johnson) while the other (Michael Brown) was fleeing the scene. This is likely where everything truly begins to go wrong.

    Most accounts have Michael Brown running away from the scene, but is it possible he was actually fleeing the scene? Reports also state that Michael Brown halted and put his hands up. This, too, is possible. But is it also possible that Michael Brown rushed the police officer while he was distracted in an attempt to catch him off-guard?

    Assuming the police officer had apprehended or was attempted to subdue Mr. Johnson, it is possible that he was unaware that Michael Brown, who initially was fleeing the scene, doubled back and charged the police office catching him off-guard. If that were the case and there was no apparent "de-escalation" of the hostilities, that things happened rapidly, it is very possible that the officer was in fear for his life after all the violent activity that took place earlier, and upon noticing such a large individual charging after him drew his weapon and fired. In such a situation, police are trained to shoot to kill and to continue firing until the hostile individual no longer posses a threat.

    I think until all the facts come out, it's just too soon to call this murder. We have to wait until all the facts come out, but at this stage it's looking more like a justified shooting.
    "A fair exchange ain't no robbery." Tupac Shakur w/Digital Underground

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    Re: Michael Brown was a robbery suspect before he was shot to death, police say

    Quote Originally Posted by Objective Voice View Post
    3. If the police officer was alone while having to deal with two violent suspects, it's quite possible he had some difficulty dealing with both of them. From all accounts, it would appear the office apprehended one suspect (Dorian Johnson) while the other (Michael Brown) was fleeing the scene. This is likely where everything truly begins to go wrong.

    <snip>

    Not to say your entire post wasn't interesting - it was - but this part particularly struck me. Interesting and yes, it does bear thinking about.

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    Re: Michael Brown was a robbery suspect before he was shot to death, police say

    Quote Originally Posted by Excon View Post
    Wow. What a ridiculous claim.
    His cohort already admitted that it was a robbery.
    The store owner was willing to press charges,

    And according to the cohort and as seen in the video, the box of cigars given to him by Brown, he put back on the counter and stated he didn't steal.
    Which shows that the cohort knew Brown was stealing.

    Why are you so willing to buy into such bs?
    I don't know...

    Looks to me like MB was standing at the counter w/his hands behind his back, then moved his hands over the counter. Can't tell if he had cash in-hand, but he put something down on the counter (not a weapon of any sort). Perhaps a debit/credit/EBT card? He reaches back and hands his friend (presumably Dorian Johnson - DJ) a box of some sort. After a brief pause, MB clearly is upset about something. He then reaches over the counter and grabs a box of something - looks like cigars or cigarillos - along with his merchandise. Some packets from the box drop on the floor. MB then places the box w/remaining contents back on the counter and begins to walk off. DJ places whatever MB gave him on the counter and he leave. The store clerk then comes from around the counter and attempts to get MB's attention.

    Is it possible MB did pay for his merchandise but got into a brief verbal altercation over not having enough to pay for everything? Or maybe MB believed he was the one being ripped off? Who knows. Hard to say it was a robbery since the video clearly shows no weapon was used and merchandise was placed back on the counter by both MB and (presumably) DJ. Course, this doesn't account for the merchandise that fell to the floor which MB did pick up. Petty theft...yes, but clearly not a robbery.
    "A fair exchange ain't no robbery." Tupac Shakur w/Digital Underground

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    Re: Michael Brown was a robbery suspect before he was shot to death, police say

    Quote Originally Posted by Objective Voice View Post
    I don't know...

    Looks to me like MB was standing at the counter w/his hands behind his back, then moved his hands over the counter. Can't tell if he had cash in-hand, but he put something down on the counter (not a weapon of any sort). Perhaps a debit/credit/EBT card? He reaches back and hands his friend (presumably Dorian Johnson - DJ) a box of some sort. After a brief pause, MB clearly is upset about something. He then reaches over the counter and grabs a box of something - looks like cigars or cigarillos - along with his merchandise. Some packets from the box drop on the floor. MB then places the box w/remaining contents back on the counter and begins to walk off. DJ places whatever MB gave him on the counter and he leave. The store clerk then comes from around the counter and attempts to get MB's attention.

    Is it possible MB did pay for his merchandise but got into a brief verbal altercation over not having enough to pay for everything? Or maybe MB believed he was the one being ripped off? Who knows. Hard to say it was a robbery since the video clearly shows no weapon was used and merchandise was placed back on the counter by both MB and (presumably) DJ. Course, this doesn't account for the merchandise that fell to the floor which MB did pick up. Petty theft...yes, but clearly not a robbery.
    It was by definition, a ROBBERY.

    The taking of money or goods via force.

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    Re: Michael Brown was a robbery suspect before he was shot to death, police say

    Quote Originally Posted by Objective Voice View Post
    I don't know...

    Looks to me like MB was standing at the counter w/his hands behind his back, then moved his hands over the counter. Can't tell if he had cash in-hand, but he put something down on the counter (not a weapon of any sort). Perhaps a debit/credit/EBT card? He reaches back and hands his friend (presumably Dorian Johnson - DJ) a box of some sort. After a brief pause, MB clearly is upset about something. He then reaches over the counter and grabs a box of something - looks like cigars or cigarillos - along with his merchandise. Some packets from the box drop on the floor. MB then places the box w/remaining contents back on the counter and begins to walk off. DJ places whatever MB gave him on the counter and he leave. The store clerk then comes from around the counter and attempts to get MB's attention.

    Is it possible MB did pay for his merchandise but got into a brief verbal altercation over not having enough to pay for everything? Or maybe MB believed he was the one being ripped off? Who knows. Hard to say it was a robbery since the video clearly shows no weapon was used and merchandise was placed back on the counter by both MB and (presumably) DJ. Course, this doesn't account for the merchandise that fell to the floor which MB did pick up. Petty theft...yes, but clearly not a robbery.
    Good lord, people just making up their own reality.

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    Re: Michael Brown was a robbery suspect before he was shot to death, police say

    Quote Originally Posted by Objective Voice View Post
    I don't know...

    Looks to me like MB was standing at the counter w/his hands behind his back, then moved his hands over the counter. Can't tell if he had cash in-hand, but he put something down on the counter (not a weapon of any sort). Perhaps a debit/credit/EBT card? He reaches back and hands his friend (presumably Dorian Johnson - DJ) a box of some sort. After a brief pause, MB clearly is upset about something. He then reaches over the counter and grabs a box of something - looks like cigars or cigarillos - along with his merchandise. Some packets from the box drop on the floor. MB then places the box w/remaining contents back on the counter and begins to walk off. DJ places whatever MB gave him on the counter and he leave. The store clerk then comes from around the counter and attempts to get MB's attention.

    Is it possible MB did pay for his merchandise but got into a brief verbal altercation over not having enough to pay for everything? Or maybe MB believed he was the one being ripped off? Who knows. Hard to say it was a robbery since the video clearly shows no weapon was used and merchandise was placed back on the counter by both MB and (presumably) DJ. Course, this doesn't account for the merchandise that fell to the floor which MB did pick up. Petty theft...yes, but clearly not a robbery.
    He stole. His cohort admitted he did.
    The shop keeper was willing to press charges. He stole.

    And again: The cohort put the box of cigars Brown gave him, back on the counter, and at the same time stated he didn't steal.
    That shows it was known right then and there he was stealing.
    “The law is reason, free from passion.”
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    Re: Michael Brown was a robbery suspect before he was shot to death, police say

    Quote Originally Posted by Objective Voice View Post
    I don't know...

    Looks to me like MB was standing at the counter w/his hands behind his back, then moved his hands over the counter. Can't tell if he had cash in-hand, but he put something down on the counter (not a weapon of any sort). Perhaps a debit/credit/EBT card? He reaches back and hands his friend (presumably Dorian Johnson - DJ) a box of some sort. After a brief pause, MB clearly is upset about something. He then reaches over the counter and grabs a box of something - looks like cigars or cigarillos - along with his merchandise. Some packets from the box drop on the floor. MB then places the box w/remaining contents back on the counter and begins to walk off. DJ places whatever MB gave him on the counter and he leave. The store clerk then comes from around the counter and attempts to get MB's attention.

    Is it possible MB did pay for his merchandise but got into a brief verbal altercation over not having enough to pay for everything? Or maybe MB believed he was the one being ripped off? Who knows. Hard to say it was a robbery since the video clearly shows no weapon was used and merchandise was placed back on the counter by both MB and (presumably) DJ. Course, this doesn't account for the merchandise that fell to the floor which MB did pick up. Petty theft...yes, but clearly not a robbery.
    Doesn't matter. You don't get to decide that if you don't have enough money that you'll just take it anyway. Do you?
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    Re: Michael Brown was a robbery suspect before he was shot to death, police say

    Quote Originally Posted by Fenton View Post
    It was by definition, a ROBBERY.

    The taking of money or goods via force.
    Where's the force at the time the alleged merchandise was taken? You don't see a weapon used do you? All you see is the aggravated swipe of the box off the counter which was put back. Granted, the merchandise that was dropped on the floor and subsequently picked up by MB is clearly theft in my view since it's clear he didn't pay for it, but the "force" doesn't come until MB grabs the store clerk by his shirt collar and shoves him back against the door as he exits the store.

    I'm not defending the guy at least not in the sense to suggest he didn't do anything wrong. I just question the "forceful act of robbery" so many are claiming happened. I do see that in the video. I see him walk out with merchandise he very likely didn't pay for, but I don't see "robbery" here, just petty theft.
    "A fair exchange ain't no robbery." Tupac Shakur w/Digital Underground

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    Re: Michael Brown was a robbery suspect before he was shot to death, police say

    Quote Originally Posted by Objective Voice View Post
    Where's the force at the time the alleged merchandise was taken? You don't see a weapon used do you? All you see is the aggravated swipe of the box off the counter which was put back. Granted, the merchandise that was dropped on the floor and subsequently picked up by MB is clearly theft in my view since it's clear he didn't pay for it, but the "force" doesn't come until MB grabs the store clerk by his shirt collar and shoves him back against the door as he exits the store.

    I'm not defending the guy at least not in the sense to suggest he didn't do anything wrong. I just question the "forceful act of robbery" so many are claiming happened. I do see that in the video. I see him walk out with merchandise he very likely didn't pay for, but I don't see "robbery" here, just petty theft.
    Exiting the store with the merchandise was accomplished by force.

    Start watching @ 01:26
    Last edited by Excon; 08-21-14 at 09:24 PM.
    “The law is reason, free from passion.”
    Aristotle
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