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U.S. Dominates Chinese world university rankings

shrubnose

shrubnose

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US universities dominated the top 20 in an annual ranking of global educational institutions with Harvard remaining in first place ahead of Stanford.

Read the article here: US dominates Chinese world university rankings


What do any of those who constantly start threads about the demise of the USA and the ascendance of China have to say about this?

Maybe the USA will stay on top for a little longer, eh?
 
shrubnose said:
US universities dominated the top 20 in an annual ranking of global educational institutions with Harvard remaining in first place ahead of Stanford.

Read the article here: US dominates Chinese world university rankings


What do any of those who constantly start threads about the demise of the USA and the ascendance of China have to say about this?

Maybe the USA will stay on top for a little longer, eh?
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You certainly cannot say the Chinese are stupid.
 
I do believe that the ARWU has had quite some critisism in the past, but nonetheless you can conclude that American and Europe universities are in a better position than the Chinese universities. You should not forget though that a large percentage of graduates on these American schools are actually foreign. Many leaving the country after graduation.

The reason for this is that the USA spends a lot of their money on education, where foreign students benefit from these investments in higher education. Also, the Chinese government subsidises their students and gives them job security after coming back. Maybe the schooling system and subsidies are one of the reasons Chinese universities don't develop the way the American universities do?

So yes, I do think American universities will stay on top for a little longer, as long as these universities will be fundable for foreigners.
 
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Experience weighs more than college education.

If I could trade away my college years of study with half the years of work experience in my field, I would do so happily. Having 2 more extra years added to my work life would made me earn almost double I do now and certainly in a position to swap a higher-up position.

But anyway. Countries usually spend between 1.5-4% of their gdp on R&D.
If we are to trust this wiki page:
List of countries by research and development spending - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The US is pretty high up there in terms of % and ofc, the highest by over 100bil in actual money that it invests in R&D to China which is 2nd with about 300bil $.

But companies will always spend a higher percentage of their gdp on R&D.

If this list is to be trusted:
Top 20 R&D Spenders - Not Good Investments - Forbes

We cam see that companies spend a great deal higher % of their money on R&D than states... though depends on companies. The worlds "richest" company is Exxon if I'm not mistaken at about 400bil euros. Now that's considerably high, and is pretty much the same as the gdp of Austria but because it's in oil, it doesn't invest a lot of money into R&D coz it's money comes out of the ground. Literally. You will see this if you study a bit. IT companies and healthcare(pharma) companies and big agro (like companies that deal with GMOs) and car companies and generally companies that are in very competitive fields where one technology or drug can put them ahead of the game, will always spend a lot of money on R&D while petrol or gas companies will barely spend anything. Coz they don't need to. It is also similar to the way countries with huge resoures will behave. Qatar, saudi arabia, russia, etc, a lot of these big oil companies will always spend very little on R&D and science, while those who aren't resource intensive exploitation-wise will spend a lot more. The one exception is ofc, the US who is oil rich and gas rich but is ofc, spending a lot, though it could do more, and should do more... because apparently, if you look at this video, it's not going all that well.

Neil deGrasse Tyson: Which country is doing the most science today? [VIDEO]
 
Rainman05 said:
If I could trade away my college years of study with half the years of work experience in my field, I would do so happily. Having 2 more extra years added to my work life would made me earn almost double I do now and certainly in a position to swap a higher-up position.
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It is arguable to study computer sciences and programming because by the end of the BS curricula the readings would be obsolete and outdated. It is due to speed of development.

But findings in other sciences have a slower pace of development. Readings there do not necessarily become obsolete after the BS curriculum.
 
DDD said:
It is arguable to study computer sciences and programming because by the end of the BS curricula the readings would be obsolete and outdated. It is due to speed of development.

But findings in other sciences have a slower pace of development. Readings there do not necessarily become obsolete after the BS curriculum.
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Everything I learned in college I could have learned in 1 year by own initiative. I did electronics engineering, but I work in IT.
And it's not due to the fact that it was a lazy college, it was a good college and a lot to learn, but it was because when you do something for your own desire, you find ways to go about it faster and more in depth. The one thing I'd be missing out of is manual interaction with electronic platforms and instruments and components and boards. So the practical side of things. But all the theoretical knowledge and knowing how to use or learn a computer program that dealt with that... srsly, i could have done it faster and better.

Colleges have become highschool 2.0 and highschool is BS.

Education as it is done today everywhere is unfit for purpose in this century. It's good, it's not that it's awful or bad or anything like that, it's just insufficiently efficient.
 
Rainman05 said:
Everything I learned in college I could have learned in 1 year by own initiative. I did electronics engineering, but I work in IT.
And it's not due to the fact that it was a lazy college, it was a good college and a lot to learn, but it was because when you do something for your own desire, you find ways to go about it faster and more in depth. The one thing I'd be missing out of is manual interaction with electronic platforms and instruments and components and boards. So the practical side of things. But all the theoretical knowledge and knowing how to use or learn a computer program that dealt with that... srsly, i could have done it faster and better.

Colleges have become highschool 2.0 and highschool is BS.

Education as it is done today everywhere is unfit for purpose in this century. It's good, it's not that it's awful or bad or anything like that, it's just insufficiently efficient.
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It just needs better cognitive simulators.
 
From the OP article:

'It ranks the best 500 based on six indicators, including the number of Nobel Prizes and Fields Medals won by staff and alumni, and the number of articles published in the journals Nature and Science.

The factors -- which unlike many other listings do not include teaching quality or graduate employment -- are such that the findings will vary only slowly over time.'


These indicators are clearly skewed to western and more prestigious universities...these criteria hardly seem like solid indicators of how good the schools actually are.


Btw, I could care less which is better, U.S. or Chinese schools.

For the record, I went to an American university and just about all I learned is how to party almost every night of the week and still be able to make it to class in the morning.
 
DDD said:
It just needs better cognitive simulators.
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Most of the technical universities are bordering becoming obsolete today. They need to change and adapt if they want to serve the public further on but as the field of technology deepens and expands, they'll not just become obsolete, but they'll become a force for regression and stagnation. There is no reason why people should waste 4-5 years of their lives in an institution that is basically drying them and not letting people expand their wings fully.


The germans are ofc, as they always been, ahead of the curve on this topic. They have generous and well structured internship and educational programs where students go into companies to learn adn work from the ground up, instead of heading to university. You learn much more and much faster and have access to the newest and greatest at the age of 18 or 19 rather than 23 or 24 when people finish up with college.
Ofc, there is a better way to go about it. Universities should become a focus point of technological research funded by the state and their mission for education should become complementary. In other words, highschools should become the places where people discover themselves and what they love and want to do in life and universities should become the places where they can complement their workplace education with things that will benefit them both at work and in life. Like if you find out you wanna become a programmer in highschool, you go get an apprenticeship or an internship if you will at a company where you learn these things and then you enroll in college just to find specialized information, like for instance, learn about computer arhitecture to know more about the hardware part than the software part you get from work. Or learn about what's going on in the rest of the world of technology.

But today, highschool is just the stupid dump which you have to go through to get to college where you actually find out what you want in life and waste a few more years. Pathetic. I blame the educational system for making me waste a few years of my life because it never helped me discover my talents or my ambitions, instead, it always enforced stupid, senseless norms based on an arbitrary definition. And like me, millions accross the world.
It's unfit for this century. It was great until a few decades ago, until the computer revolution, it's unfit now.
 
Rainman05 said:
Most of the technical universities are bordering becoming obsolete today. They need to change and adapt if they want to serve the public further on but as the field of technology deepens and expands, they'll not just become obsolete, but they'll become a force for regression and stagnation. There is no reason why people should waste 4-5 years of their lives in an institution that is basically drying them and not letting people expand their wings fully.


The germans are ofc, as they always been, ahead of the curve on this topic. They have generous and well structured internship and educational programs where students go into companies to learn adn work from the ground up, instead of heading to university. You learn much more and much faster and have access to the newest and greatest at the age of 18 or 19 rather than 23 or 24 when people finish up with college.
Ofc, there is a better way to go about it. Universities should become a focus point of technological research funded by the state and their mission for education should become complementary. In other words, highschools should become the places where people discover themselves and what they love and want to do in life and universities should become the places where they can complement their workplace education with things that will benefit them both at work and in life. Like if you find out you wanna become a programmer in highschool, you go get an apprenticeship or an internship if you will at a company where you learn these things and then you enroll in college just to find specialized information, like for instance, learn about computer arhitecture to know more about the hardware part than the software part you get from work. Or learn about what's going on in the rest of the world of technology.

But today, highschool is just the stupid dump which you have to go through to get to college where you actually find out what you want in life and waste a few more years. Pathetic. I blame the educational system for making me waste a few years of my life because it never helped me discover my talents or my ambitions, instead, it always enforced stupid, senseless norms based on an arbitrary definition. And like me, millions accross the world.
It's unfit for this century. It was great until a few decades ago, until the computer revolution, it's unfit now.
Click to expand...

A lot of reform awaits to be done.
 
Hmm? said:
Also, the Chinese government... gives them job security after coming back.
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This actually isn't the case. I was in Beijing in June during China's 3-day Gaokao (national college entrance exam) and one of the big issues making the news at the time was the lack of jobs for college graduates. Unemployment and underemployment for recent graduates is a problem there.

On a separate matter, a picture of the Great Wall at Jinshanling that I took while in China:

GreatWall2014_zpsb4f29d94.jpg
 
I went to a Chinese university once. 15 minutes later, I wanted to go again.
 
Rainman05 said:
Most of the technical universities are bordering becoming obsolete today. They need to change and adapt if they want to serve the public further on but as the field of technology deepens and expands, they'll not just become obsolete, but they'll become a force for regression and stagnation. There is no reason why people should waste 4-5 years of their lives in an institution that is basically drying them and not letting people expand their wings fully.


The germans are ofc, as they always been, ahead of the curve on this topic. They have generous and well structured internship and educational programs where students go into companies to learn adn work from the ground up, instead of heading to university. You learn much more and much faster and have access to the newest and greatest at the age of 18 or 19 rather than 23 or 24 when people finish up with college.
Ofc, there is a better way to go about it. Universities should become a focus point of technological research funded by the state and their mission for education should become complementary. In other words, highschools should become the places where people discover themselves and what they love and want to do in life and universities should become the places where they can complement their workplace education with things that will benefit them both at work and in life. Like if you find out you wanna become a programmer in highschool, you go get an apprenticeship or an internship if you will at a company where you learn these things and then you enroll in college just to find specialized information, like for instance, learn about computer arhitecture to know more about the hardware part than the software part you get from work. Or learn about what's going on in the rest of the world of technology.

But today, highschool is just the stupid dump which you have to go through to get to college where you actually find out what you want in life and waste a few more years. Pathetic. I blame the educational system for making me waste a few years of my life because it never helped me discover my talents or my ambitions, instead, it always enforced stupid, senseless norms based on an arbitrary definition. And like me, millions accross the world.
It's unfit for this century. It was great until a few decades ago, until the computer revolution, it's unfit now.
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I am with you here. Spending too much time in HS is absolutely a waste of time. What is the point of learning so much stuff in order to get access to a university where your major may not be the direction you want to go in? In university, much time is spent on partying, dating and other activities which are not highly related to one's major, which is a waste of time IMO. With that being said, I am not opposed to the activities, I just think an undergraduate shall be clearer and more determined about the career path he /she wants to embark on. Wasting time is equivalent to committing suicide.
It's well-documented that the education system is bloated today, with the skyrocketing number of universities and the increasing financial burden on the students. The government is well-informed about this yet can not deliver a consummate solution. And, ironically, it may try to benefit from the expansion of universities.
 
shrubnose said:
Many of them are intelligent enough to want to go to school in the USA.
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**** them, if you get taught in America you better damn well repay her.

I had a friend from china who's here in the good ol USA. If he goes back to china after he is done with high school and college I'll be the first to go after him.

My dad came here and stayed here and payed taxes here after he capitalized on the freedoms of the states. These people are piss to come to the U.S and then do nothing in return after we give them an education.
 
donsutherland1 said:
This actually isn't the case. I was in Beijing in June during China's 3-day Gaokao (national college entrance exam) and one of the big issues making the news at the time was the lack of jobs for college graduates. Unemployment and underemployment for recent graduates is a problem there.

On a separate matter, a picture of the Great Wall at Jinshanling that I took while in China:

GreatWall2014_zpsb4f29d94.jpg
Click to expand...
In the past, studying abroad is almost a privilege for the elites, whom were mostly funded by the government and therefore when they came back, they could easily get satisfying jobs in the institutes. It's not the case anymore. As you said, the lack of jobs, or quality jobs to be more exact, is being a nightmare for the graduates, which propel more parents to send their children overseas. It is a well-known fact that the majority of the Chinese universities are not good places to learn valuable skills or pursue an academic career due to a lot of reasons, one of which is that the teacher-student ratio is incredibly low. China is the country with the largest population, which starts to cost the Chinese in a number of ways after China's economical boost starting from the 1980s.
There has been a feverish trend for Chinese students to study abroad, in hope of getting quality jobs after graduation. The government doesnt guarantee their jobs since they are not selected in the national programs but self-funded.
At first glance, it may seem decent since more people have access to better education. However, since many of them are already victims of the stagnant education system, which force them to learn for 12 years, instead of providing opportunities for innovation, they have a hard time adapting to the western education. Given the fact that many of them are cramming rather than learning in the right way, they are often in a dilemma and some of them resort to hiring others to finish their assignments and papers.
 
Luftwaffe said:
**** them, if you get taught in America you better damn well repay her.

I had a friend from china who's here in the good ol USA. If he goes back to china after he is done with high school and college I'll be the first to go after him.

My dad came here and stayed here and payed taxes here after he capitalized on the freedoms of the states. These people are piss to come to the U.S and then do nothing in return after we give them an education.
Click to expand...
But China suffers the brain drain more than the US does. It's probably a rare case for someone who leaves the US for China. If you follow the news, you know that many rich Chinese try so hard to get US green cards and the average people condemn them for not returning enough to the society and walking away with wealth.
 
idea_steed said:
Care to elaborate on this?
Click to expand...

I think he is making a joke...comparing Chinese University to eating Chinese Food.

The latter is generally thought of in the a West as a type of food that you will be hungry for more very shortly after you eat it.
 
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