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Thread: Snowden embraces American flag in WIRED photo shoot[W:511]

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    re: Snowden embraces American flag in WIRED photo shoot[W:511]

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    Wrong. He flew to China, and then flew to Russia, carrying 4 laptops crammed full of US National Security in them in order to trade for passage, at which point he basically became Putins' Agent. Snowden chose to trade with and seek the embrace of the autocrats. He's welcome to fly back to the US any time he wants, and he doesn't, because he prefers it precisely where he is.
    He's welcome to return to the US... where he will promptly be thrown in a hole to await a kangaroo court that will throw him in an even deeper hole. Forever.

    I suppose I could say you are free to swim in shark infested waters with chum strapped all over your body.... but I guess you must really hate sharks and wish them all to starve. Shame on you.
    "Political speech and writing are largely the defense of the indefensible. . . . Thus political language has to consist largely of euphemism, question-begging and sheer cloudy vagueness."
    ~Orwell, Politics and the English Language

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    re: Snowden embraces American flag in WIRED photo shoot[W:511]

    Quote Originally Posted by Gonzo Rodeo View Post
    He's welcome to return to the US... where he will promptly be thrown in a hole to await a kangaroo court that will throw him in an even deeper hole. Forever.

    I suppose I could say you are free to swim in shark infested waters with chum strapped all over your body.... but I guess you must really hate sharks and wish them all to starve. Shame on you.
    Damn America where we actually have laws. How unreasonable!
    We became a great nation not because we are a nation of cynics. We became a great nation because we are a nation of believers - Lindsey Graham

    Quote Originally Posted by Fiddytree View Post
    Uh oh Megyn...your vagina witchcraft is about ready to be exposed.

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    re: Snowden embraces American flag in WIRED photo shoot[W:511]

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    He didn't help his fellow Americans and he may very likely have gotten some of them killed. He certainly has helped kill plenty of foreigners.

    "hero"



    He's a traitor who serves the interests of dictators. He deserves vilification.



    i am rather sure that history will view Snowden far more accurately than that.



    But hey, Snowden says he would be willing to do Jail Time to come back to America because He Just Loves It So Much.

    Anyone willing to bet me he is lying his ass off, and has no intention whatsoever of making good on that?
    I would point out that using the term "traitor" is probably counterproductive. It ratchets up the emotional rhetoric unnecessarily. It is enough that he is a criminal. Same practical considerations apply, and without all the extra emotional baggage.

    And isn't it weird how 2 people who disagree on so much, and have such a wildly diametric view of the word as you and I, and yet we agree pretty much 100 % on this one issue?
    We became a great nation not because we are a nation of cynics. We became a great nation because we are a nation of believers - Lindsey Graham

    Quote Originally Posted by Fiddytree View Post
    Uh oh Megyn...your vagina witchcraft is about ready to be exposed.

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    re: Snowden embraces American flag in WIRED photo shoot[W:511]

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    Damn America where we actually have laws. How unreasonable!
    It's a crying shame our own government refuses to listen to them. Snowden exposed quite a bit of illegality regarding surveillance of Americans that is unconstitutional. For that, we should be grateful. What he did after may have been reprehensible, but I for one, do not want to live in a world with a set of surveillance programs former Sec. Ashcroft would not even agree to. The past 12 years has seen privacy decline dramatically and a Big Brother state emerge. How any one can think that is good is beyond me. Snowden is no saint or devil, and he's done good and bad, but I do strongly believe that the revealing of the illegal surveillance of Americans who've done nothing wrong was good.
    "If your opponent is of choleric temperament, seek to irritate him." - Sun Tzu

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    re: Snowden embraces American flag in WIRED photo shoot[W:511]

    Quote Originally Posted by obvious Child View Post
    It's a crying shame our own government refuses to listen to them. Snowden exposed quite a bit of illegality regarding surveillance of Americans that is unconstitutional. For that, we should be grateful. What he did after may have been reprehensible, but I for one, do not want to live in a world with a set of surveillance programs former Sec. Ashcroft would not even agree to. The past 12 years has seen privacy decline dramatically and a Big Brother state emerge. How any one can think that is good is beyond me. Snowden is no saint or devil, and he's done good and bad, but I do strongly believe that the revealing of the illegal surveillance of Americans who've done nothing wrong was good.
    Two separate things.

    1: NSA spying

    2: Snowden spying

    The problem so many have is that they cannot think of them as two separate things. To use a historical example: Benedict Arnold had some pretty good reasons for being pissed off at the revolutionary army and continental congress. This does not excuse his turning coat.
    We became a great nation not because we are a nation of cynics. We became a great nation because we are a nation of believers - Lindsey Graham

    Quote Originally Posted by Fiddytree View Post
    Uh oh Megyn...your vagina witchcraft is about ready to be exposed.

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    re: Snowden embraces American flag in WIRED photo shoot[W:511]

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    I would point out that using the term "traitor" is probably counterproductive. It ratchets up the emotional rhetoric unnecessarily. It is enough that he is a criminal. Same practical considerations apply, and without all the extra emotional baggage.
    I don't look at it here as a epithet, I look at it as an accurate description of his crime. He committed treason.

    And isn't it weird how 2 people who disagree on so much, and have such a wildly diametric view of the word as you and I, and yet we agree pretty much 100 % on this one issue?
    Is this the part where we race each other to the "broken clock" joke?

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    re: Snowden embraces American flag in WIRED photo shoot[W:511]

    Quote Originally Posted by Gonzo Rodeo View Post
    He's welcome to return to the US... where he will promptly be thrown in a hole to await a kangaroo court that will throw him in an even deeper hole. Forever.
    He would go to jail because he broke the law. That's not a kangaroo court, that's just a court.

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    re: Snowden embraces American flag in WIRED photo shoot[W:511]

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    He would go to jail because he broke the law. That's not a kangaroo court, that's just a court.
    And the illegal, unconstitutional things he exposed? Who goes to jail for enacting and carrying out those things?

    Ok, fine, the way he went about it was wrong... does this mean what he exposed is not wrong?
    "Political speech and writing are largely the defense of the indefensible. . . . Thus political language has to consist largely of euphemism, question-begging and sheer cloudy vagueness."
    ~Orwell, Politics and the English Language

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    re: Snowden embraces American flag in WIRED photo shoot[W:511]

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    Is this the part where we race each other to the "broken clock" joke?
    I kinda suspect it is more like we both spent time in the military. We both learned that authority is not necessarily a bad thing, that rules are not oppression.
    We became a great nation not because we are a nation of cynics. We became a great nation because we are a nation of believers - Lindsey Graham

    Quote Originally Posted by Fiddytree View Post
    Uh oh Megyn...your vagina witchcraft is about ready to be exposed.

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    re: Snowden embraces American flag in WIRED photo shoot[W:511]

    Quote Originally Posted by Gonzo Rodeo View Post
    And the illegal, unconstitutional things he exposed? Who goes to jail for enacting and carrying out those things?

    Ok, fine, the way he went about it was wrong... does this mean what he exposed is not wrong?
    Separate issue. I know I am not going to defend some of the things done in the name of security. That does not excuse giving classified information to foreign countries. Random contractors and low ranking soldiers cannot be the ones who make decisions on what should and should not be classified.
    We became a great nation not because we are a nation of cynics. We became a great nation because we are a nation of believers - Lindsey Graham

    Quote Originally Posted by Fiddytree View Post
    Uh oh Megyn...your vagina witchcraft is about ready to be exposed.

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