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Thread: Snowden embraces American flag in WIRED photo shoot[W:511]

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    Re: Snowden embraces American flag in WIRED photo shoot[W:511]

    Quote Originally Posted by ReverendHellh0und View Post
    You expect others to fix your mess? I'm happy to reply, but I don't feel I should be doing your work for you. Thanks.
    I can't edit it after a certain amount of time lol

    Is it really boggling you to such an extent? If so, I simply asked you if you really believe someone can be fully age without any knowledge of their surroundings? I also told you that yes, you've shown that NSA spies on Americans with warrants.
    The whole modern world has divided itself into Conservatives and Progressives. The business of Progressives is to go on making mistakes. The business of Conservatives is to prevent mistakes from being corrected.
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    Re: Snowden embraces American flag in WIRED photo shoot[W:511]

    Quote Originally Posted by OldWorldOrder View Post
    Seriously, how can you be safe without a knowledge of your surroundings?


    [Qiote]if "one depends on the other" by definition they would be two separate things!

    You are creating a strawman. Can't help you with that.


    NSA has spied on Americans, I have shown this.
    With warrants. I have shown you this.[/QUOTE]

    Seriously, how can one claim to live under the rule of law when the law is broken by the government as it pleases (and keeps it secret)????

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    Re: Snowden embraces American flag in WIRED photo shoot[W:511]

    Quote Originally Posted by Henry David View Post
    With warrants. I have shown you this.
    Seriously, how can one claim to live under the rule of law when the law is broken by the government as it pleases (and keeps it secret)????[/QUOTE]
    I dunno, all these conspiracies running around, it's hard to tell.
    The whole modern world has divided itself into Conservatives and Progressives. The business of Progressives is to go on making mistakes. The business of Conservatives is to prevent mistakes from being corrected.
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    Re: Snowden embraces American flag in WIRED photo shoot[W:511]

    Quote Originally Posted by OldWorldOrder View Post
    I can't edit it after a certain amount of time lol

    Is it really boggling you to such an extent? If so, I simply asked you if you really believe someone can be fully age without any knowledge of their surroundings? I also told you that yes, you've shown that NSA spies on Americans with warrants.

    Doesn't boggle my mind at all, it's simply if you are not going to make the effort, expecting others to do so, seems a little like hubris. Anyway, I've shown that the NSA has spied without warrants. You choose to ignore my links and the facts at hand, I am not sure there if there is a way to get you to acknowledge basic facts in order to continue here.


    as fot your strawman, I am sorry, I will not be defending positions given to me that I have not held. Sorry.
    Let evil swiftly befall those who have wrongly condemned us

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    Re: Snowden embraces American flag in WIRED photo shoot[W:511]

    Quote Originally Posted by ReverendHellh0und View Post
    Doesn't boggle my mind at all, it's simply if you are not going to make the effort, expecting others to do so, seems a little like hubris.
    This has nothing to do with anything. The time frame for me to edit the post had passed. lol

    Anyway, I've shown that the NSA has spied without warrants. You choose to ignore my links and the facts at hand, I am not sure there if there is a way to get you to acknowledge basic facts in order to continue here.
    Yes, NSA has spied without warrants. Against foreign nationals. And yes NSA has spied on Americans. With warrants. But no, NSA has not spied on Americans without warrants. Storing metadata is not spying.

    It's pretty straightforward. I already expressed how you've consistently conflated several different things. I made a post that itemized them, I think there were four categories.

    as fot your strawman, I am sorry, I will not be defending positions given to me that I have not held. Sorry.
    You're the one that acted like surveillance (as in surveilling your surroundings) and safety were opposite or unrelated things. Anyone who's been on patrol knows otherwise.

    Also please edit your post to change "fot" to "for", otherwise I'll be forced to talk about how you're showing hubris.
    The whole modern world has divided itself into Conservatives and Progressives. The business of Progressives is to go on making mistakes. The business of Conservatives is to prevent mistakes from being corrected.
    -GK Chesterton

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    Re: Snowden embraces American flag in WIRED photo shoot[W:511]

    Quote Originally Posted by OldWorldOrder View Post
    This has nothing to do with anything. The time frame for me to edit the post had passed. lol

    If I had made such an err, I would have reposted a new post with the corrected format.


    Yes, NSA has spied without warrants. Against foreign nationals. And yes NSA has spied on Americans. With warrants. But no, NSA has not spied on Americans without warrants. Storing metadata is not spying.
    let's go way back...

    Bush Authorized Domestic Spying

    (I have lots of these)


    It's pretty straightforward. I already expressed how you've consistently conflated several different things. I made a post that itemized them, I think there were four categories.

    Bottom line is you think it's good to spy on your fellow citizens, I do not. easy enough.


    You're the one that acted like surveillance (as in surveilling your surroundings) and safety were opposite or unrelated things. Anyone who's been on patrol knows otherwise.
    This is that intellectually wanting strawman you built, I never made any such claims. repeating this line of debate is dishonest on your part, brother.


    Also please edit your post to change "fot" to "for", otherwise I'll be forced to talk about how you're showing hubris.

    Quote mistakes (as I just fixed) interrupt the flow of conversation, where I have to spend my valuable time fixing your mess. a typo is easilly read as to what it is supposed to mean by most. I think you know the difference.


    It seems I have upset you. I hope your day is well, sir.
    Last edited by ReverendHellh0und; 11-21-14 at 02:25 PM.
    Let evil swiftly befall those who have wrongly condemned us

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    Re: Snowden embraces American flag in WIRED photo shoot[W:511]

    Quote Originally Posted by ReverendHellh0und View Post
    If I had made such an err, I would have reposted a new post with the corrected format.




    let's go way back...

    Bush Authorized Domestic Spying

    (I have lots of these)





    Bottom line is you think it's good to spy on your fellow citizens, I do not. easy enough.



    You're the one that acted like surveillance (as in surveilling your surroundings) and safety were opposite or unrelated things. Anyone who's been on patrol knows otherwise.

    Also please edit your post to change "fot" to "for", otherwise I'll be forced to talk about how you're showing hubris.
    [/QUOTE]
    Can you format this?
    The whole modern world has divided itself into Conservatives and Progressives. The business of Progressives is to go on making mistakes. The business of Conservatives is to prevent mistakes from being corrected.
    -GK Chesterton

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    Re: Snowden embraces American flag in WIRED photo shoot[W:511]

    Can you format this?[/QUOTE]



    was in proccess, thanks.


    (see how the give and take gets ****ed up?)
    Let evil swiftly befall those who have wrongly condemned us

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    Re: Snowden embraces American flag in WIRED photo shoot[W:511]

    I was being sardonic, it's quite easy to read.
    Quote Originally Posted by ReverendHellh0und View Post
    If I had made such an err, I would have reposted a new post with the corrected format.




    let's go way back...

    Bush Authorized Domestic Spying

    (I have lots of these)
    That tells us almost nothing. It doesn't say whether warrants were issued or not. It doesn't say whether metadata was stored or content was analyzed. You're just reading it the way you want to.


    Bottom line is you think it's good to spy on your fellow citizens, I do not. easy enough.
    Errr...no. The bottom line is that you and I disagree on what spying is. Me, with vast experience in it; you, with...

    This is that intellectually wanting strawman you built, I never made any such claims. repeating this line of debate is dishonest on your part, brother.
    There's no straw man about it. You acted like the two are unrelated and at odds, not me.


    Quote mistakes (as I just fixed) interrupt the flow of conversation, where I have to spend my valuable time fixing your mess. a typo is easilly read as to what it is supposed to mean by most. I think you know the difference.
    One word was misspelled. If you couldn't easily overcome that, I dunno what to tell you.

    t seems I have upset you. I hope your day is well, sir.
    I'm fine, just poking fun at you. On the other hand, it appears that metadata storage and intelligence collection has you very mad. That's okay, it's not your responsibility, let the professionals handle it.
    The whole modern world has divided itself into Conservatives and Progressives. The business of Progressives is to go on making mistakes. The business of Conservatives is to prevent mistakes from being corrected.
    -GK Chesterton

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    Re: Snowden embraces American flag in WIRED photo shoot[W:511]

    Quote Originally Posted by ReverendHellh0und View Post
    actually homeland security has engaged in survellience of americans, and one can argue that the TSA has engaged in searches via those body scanners as invasive.
    Well you aren't going to get me to say too many nice things about the TSA, but the idea that that counts as collection simply isn't tenable. You seem to be simply listing everyone involved in the IC and claiming that they are spy agencies, and then conflating them with collection against US Persons.

    The point I have, is you combine all these things we are doing to American citizens in the name of "Safety" has more to do with surveiling. Facial recognition was tested at a football game I believe I read somewhere. how far do you want this government looking at you and me while claiming to be looking for abu mcjihad....
    Is facial recognition fundamentally different when it is performed by software than by a person, in a manner that makes it collection? I mean, if we think Abu McJihad is going to be wearing a suicide vest at the Cowboys game (no idea why he would target the Cowboys), isn't it smarter to have something that can rapidly scan a crowd with greater precision than a couple of dozen FBI guys out there walking around with a picture, hoping to randomly run into the guy?

    I am asking you, is a letter to verizon demaning a full data dump of all thier calls and a gag order in all regards to it,. constitutional? where is your check and balance?
    The check/balance should be the inclusion and requirement for approval by multiple branches of government. If that does not happen, I agree, we have lost the C&B and need to restore it post haste. If it does, however, then we've fulfilled that Constitutional requirement.

    It is also worth noting that it is content is subject to 4th Amendment protections (that's why we keep pointing that out) - not metadata. That is why, for example, the Post Office is allowed to require you to put a return address and "to" address on your letter, but isn't allowed to just read your mail.

    Are you not reading, this is for domestic. read it again my brother.
    This is what I'm pointing out:

    NSA's Verizon Spying Order Specifically Targeted Americans, Not Foreigners - Forbes

    "“It is hereby ordered that [Verizon Business Network Services'] Custodian of Records shall produce to the National Security Agency…all call detail records or ‘telephony metadata’ created by Verizon for communications (i) between the United States and abroad; or (ii) wholly within the United States, including local telephone calls,” the Guardian’s copy of the order reads. “This Order does not require Verizon to include telephony metadata for communications wholly originating and terminating in foreign countries.”"

    This is intended to sound ominous, when it's not. Foreign collection is already covered under Title 50. Nor (again) does collection of metadata risk violating 4th Amendment protections.

    Let me rephrase, I am known for bombastic grandiloquence, I think we should tear alot of it down. Much of it is redundant, and much of it does not have proper oversight. Abuses have been recorded and little repercussions have been meted out.
    those who abused lost their clearances, their jobs, and careers. That's pretty fair for someone who basically googled his girlfriend on a classified database.

    I see what your are getting at... You want specific proof they are hacking and looking at American computers. I simply don't have the blind trust and faith in the federalis altruistic ideals of protecting you and me.
    Ah. Are you into 9/11 trutherism now, as well? At least they have evidence, as opposed to complete dependence on simple conspiratorial distrust.



    Look. Don't trust the government. You shouldn't. You're an American - it's something we're not supposed to do. But you should have evidence before you accuse it of something, or you discredit any good you would want to do.



    We actually can be pretty sure of that. It's not on the twitter.
    Don't you follow The Onion? Twitter is just another collection program run by the NSA



    Yeah. With more citations like Putin's mouthpiece?

    if you want me to research the case, I will. But I'm not really sure what you think it proves.


    know what you said, went beyond the three branches into areas that lack oversight.
    I'm confused. Are you saying that the three branches of government lack oversight? They have to be each others' oversight - that's the point of checks and balances.

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