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Thread: Snowden embraces American flag in WIRED photo shoot[W:511]

  1. #411
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    re: Snowden embraces American flag in WIRED photo shoot[W:511]

    Quote Originally Posted by ReverendHellh0und View Post
    I've been shot at for my country, have you?


    I love my country, I hate my government.


    Please try again.
    In answer to your question,Yes. And this 'I love my country but hate my government' is just so much bull****. If you don't consider Snowden a traitor for taking millions of classified NSA files with him to Russia, then you sure as hell don't love your country.
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    re: Snowden embraces American flag in WIRED photo shoot[W:511]

    Quote Originally Posted by Henry David View Post
    That suggests superficial analysis, which is always incomplete.

    For example, the case is pretty solid that AQ is a creature of our very own CIA, so "spying" on them is somehow irrelevant and misleading.

    As to spying on the Chinese, no I do not consider that to be a crime.

    Spying on foreign entities is just the way it goes, and I have no problem with that.

    Violating the Fourth Amendment and certain federal statutes? Yes, I have a problem with that, and as soon-to-be-ex Senator Wyden has pointed out, if the American people knew what he knew (regarding illegal government actions) they would be shocked.
    This is a real thread, Henry, not a conspiracy thread. We really don't need that "CIA created al Qaeda" nonsense here.
    The whole modern world has divided itself into Conservatives and Progressives. The business of Progressives is to go on making mistakes. The business of Conservatives is to prevent mistakes from being corrected.
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    re: Snowden embraces American flag in WIRED photo shoot[W:511]

    Quote Originally Posted by Wiggen View Post
    In answer to your question,Yes.
    Really?....

    And this 'I love my country but hate my government' is just so much bull****. If you don't consider Snowden a traitor for taking millions of classified NSA files with him to Russia, then you sure as hell don't love your country.

    What a bunch of jingoist bullplop. I mean this whole #murica #loveitorleaveit nonsense is just that. This government ****s, on your, ****s on the constitution, and is comprised of a political elite who's only love is thier own love of power.
    Let evil swiftly befall those who have wrongly condemned us

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    re: Snowden embraces American flag in WIRED photo shoot[W:511]

    Quote Originally Posted by OldWorldOrder View Post
    Well, some people consider the FISA courts to be meaningful restraints. Certainly legal restraint. I mean according to those federal judges, anyway. And near blanket coverage is simply not true, period. Unless you have a very liberal definition of "near".

    Do you wonder why, of the 40,000+ folks who work at NSA, the vast, vast majority of them have no problem with what it does? They who know much more of it than normal folks? Is it because they're all bad people? Dumb? Or could it be something else?
    there are far, far more than 40,000 people in this country who would have no problem whatsoever with the government spying on literally every citizen.

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    re: Snowden embraces American flag in WIRED photo shoot[W:511]

    Okay.
    The whole modern world has divided itself into Conservatives and Progressives. The business of Progressives is to go on making mistakes. The business of Conservatives is to prevent mistakes from being corrected.
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    re: Snowden embraces American flag in WIRED photo shoot[W:511]

    Quote Originally Posted by OldWorldOrder View Post
    Okay.
    maybe my point wasn't clear: i'm saying that using the fact that there are 40,000 people who work there as evidence that the organization as a whole doesn't have possible moral shortcomings isn't valid.

    i didn't notice that the post was from 3 months ago until after i posted. i was actually about to delete it for that reason but i guess i'll just leave it now.

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    re: Snowden embraces American flag in WIRED photo shoot[W:511]

    Quote Originally Posted by Wiggen View Post
    Another lover of the freedoms enjoyed in Russia.
    I think anyone would take being in Russia instead of being imprisoned or dead in the US.
    "A nation can survive its fools, and even the ambitious. But it cannot survive treason from within. An enemy at the gates is less formidable, for he is known and carries his banner openly. But the traitor moves amongst those within the gate freely, his sly whispers rustling through all the alleys, heard in the very halls of government itself. For the traitor appears not a traitor; he speaks in accents familiar to his victims, and he wears their face and their arguments, he appeals to the baseness that lies deep in the hearts of all men. He rots the soul of a nation, he works secretly and unknown in the night to undermine the pillars of the city, he infects the body politic so that it can no longer resist. A murder is less to fear"

    Cicero Marcus Tullius

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    re: Snowden embraces American flag in WIRED photo shoot[W:511]

    Quote Originally Posted by bg85 View Post
    maybe my point wasn't clear: i'm saying that using the fact that there are 40,000 people who work there as evidence that the organization as a whole doesn't have possible moral shortcomings isn't valid.

    i didn't notice that the post was from 3 months ago until after i posted. i was actually about to delete it for that reason but i guess i'll just leave it now.
    Yeah, they probably just found 40,000 Americans that hate America and other Americans to work there.

    That or maybe their detractors don't know as much about a secret spy agency as they think they do.

    I wonder which is more likely?
    The whole modern world has divided itself into Conservatives and Progressives. The business of Progressives is to go on making mistakes. The business of Conservatives is to prevent mistakes from being corrected.
    -GK Chesterton

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    re: Snowden embraces American flag in WIRED photo shoot[W:511]

    Quote Originally Posted by ReverendHellh0und View Post
    Really?....




    What a bunch of jingoist bullplop. I mean this whole #murica #loveitorleaveit nonsense is just that. This government ****s, on your, ****s on the constitution, and is comprised of a political elite who's only love is thier own love of power.
    Spoken like a true 'to hell with my country Libertarian'. Don't you have an old Ayn Rand book to re-read? You hate your country and for some reason love the fact that Putin now has access to American military secrets.

    And yes, I've been shot at for my country. Are you calling me a liar?
    "Groups with guitars are on the way out, Mr. Epstein"

    Dick Rowe, A & R man
    Decca Records
    London, 1962

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    re: Snowden embraces American flag in WIRED photo shoot[W:511]

    Quote Originally Posted by jamesrage View Post
    I think anyone would take being in Russia instead of being imprisoned or dead in the US.
    Well, there were lots of places he could have gone other than Russia. And of course, that supposes that you are perfectly OK with him taking American military secrets in the first place. I just don't get it. People get their panties in a wad because the NSA listened to telephone conversations or emails or whatever, yet the fact that our enemy who is rapidly rebuilding his military forces now has all of the NSA secrets doesn't concern them at all. In fact, they rejoice in it.
    "Groups with guitars are on the way out, Mr. Epstein"

    Dick Rowe, A & R man
    Decca Records
    London, 1962

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