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Thread: Snowden embraces American flag in WIRED photo shoot[W:511]

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    re: Snowden embraces American flag in WIRED photo shoot[W:511]

    Quote Originally Posted by jamesrage View Post
    This is what cracks me up about these apologists for the government spying on the people. Why would anyone in their right mind who exposed government wrong doing trust that they would get a fair trial and why would they want to be punished for doing the right thing? It would be stupid to stay in that country and would be stupid to flee to a country that will either extradite to that country you just fled or not stop that country from snatching you up.
    Well, here's a whole slew of countries that don't have extradition treaties with the US. Of course, none of them would be nearly as interested in US military secrets as Vlad the Impaler's country.

    Which countries have no extradition treaties with the United States

    He's a traitor and he will never be allowed back in this country, unless it's in handcuffs.
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    re: Snowden embraces American flag in WIRED photo shoot[W:511]

    Quote Originally Posted by Crovax View Post
    I think it's odd that the Snowden apologists talk about how he is being found guilty without trial and yet they claim he exposed illegal and unconstitutional things and yet those things have not yet been fully determined in a court of law.
    Because the government won't provide the information required for a trial.

    "Shubert v. Obama is a class action on behalf of all Americans against the government, alleging a massive, indiscriminate, illegal National Security Agency (NSA) dragnet of the phone calls and email of tens of millions of ordinary Americans. Filed in 2006, Shubert is now the longest running case against the government seeking to stop the domestic spying program. Shubert also seeks to hold accountable the architects of the dragnet, including NSA Director General Keith B. Alexander, former NSA Director General Michael V. Hayden, former Attorney General Alberto Gonzales, and former Attorney General John Ashcroft. For seven years, the government sought to dismiss the case on state secrets grounds, arguing that federal courts are powerless to stop even illegal government action implicating national security..."


    "...The Obama administration moved to dismiss Jewel in 2009, claiming that litigation over the wiretapping program would require the government to disclose privileged “state secrets” and that it was immune from suit.... "
    https://www.eff.org/nsa-spying


    "ACLU v. NSA:...In July 2007, the Sixth Circuit Court of Appeals dismissed the case, ruling the plaintiffs in the case - which included scholars, journalists, and national nonprofit organizations - had no standing to sue because they could not state with certainty that they have been wiretapped by the NSA..."
    https://www.aclu.org/national-securi...illegal-spying

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    re: Snowden embraces American flag in WIRED photo shoot[W:511]

    Quote Originally Posted by Gonzo Rodeo View Post
    Well, some abortion is illegal. And most people will fight that notion because they have a simplistic and uninformed view of why any abortion is legal in the first place. Ask any female progressive feminist and she'll likely tell you she has the right to obtain an abortion in any state she wants, under any circumstances, and that state regulation of such decisions are illegal and unconstitutional... and she'd be wrong.

    The thing is, though, these matters have been discussed in the courts for a very long time now. That's how judicial review works. This is why the actions of a secret court can't be labeled "legal" necessarily, which is why the presupposed legality of any such actions this court might make is largely irrelevant.
    Okay, great.

    The Circuit just heard arguments last week. It could be a while before we know.
    Oh?

    http://www.nytimes.com/2013/12/28/us...anted=all&_r=0

    U.S. can keep court orders, phone cos secret in NSA spy case | Reuters

    It seems it's not nearly as cut-and-dried as you purport. It's almost like- wait for it- it's simply your opinion that it should be illegal, so you call it illegal, when that's not really your determination to make. Like I've been saying.

    But isn't it fantastic that the conversation is being had finally?
    No, it's kinda harmful to intelligence collection. But, ya know, people can sit on the sidelines and criticize it, because it's not their job. It's not their ass if there's attack, or someone gets kidnapped, or whatever. They can just sit there and Monday morning quarterback- it's not their responsibility and the likelihood it will affect any one person is really, really low. It's extremely easy to be critical of something when your nuts aren't on the line, isn't it?
    The whole modern world has divided itself into Conservatives and Progressives. The business of Progressives is to go on making mistakes. The business of Conservatives is to prevent mistakes from being corrected.
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    re: Snowden embraces American flag in WIRED photo shoot[W:511]

    Quote Originally Posted by Lachean View Post
    I need a source to ask someone for a source for THEIR claims?
    My claim that something isn't happening? Yeah, when things don't happen, there's no source for them. That's common sense. I don't have a source that Jupiter didn't smash into the Earth today. Because people don't write stories about things that don't happen.

    I'm not the one claiming to know a negative, perhaps you should read your own link before you bother to prattle about logic to your superiors.
    hahahahahahahaha

    I can't prove Jupiter didn't smash into the Earth, friend-o. Nor can I prove Martians aren't visiting you, I can't prove Ted Kennedy isn't haunting you, and I can't prove the NSA isn't spying on you.
    The whole modern world has divided itself into Conservatives and Progressives. The business of Progressives is to go on making mistakes. The business of Conservatives is to prevent mistakes from being corrected.
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    re: Snowden embraces American flag in WIRED photo shoot[W:511]

    Quote Originally Posted by Lachean View Post
    When did I make the claim that the DOD, who I work for, had infinite funds?
    To be able to spy on jamesrage? that's pretty low on the list of priorities.

    Yeah, it has nothing to do with our right to privacy, its just that we turn our brains off. Sorry about that, you've convinced me, ANYTHING for the sake of intelligence collection is the new game, our rights be damned!
    I like how you are avoiding the point. The government is simply not competent to the suggestions that it has the ability to spy on everybody in the world.

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    re: Snowden embraces American flag in WIRED photo shoot[W:511]

    Quote Originally Posted by Henry David View Post
    Could it be that the NSA metadata program is not the only criminal actions by the US government?
    Do you consider spying on al-Qa'ida to be a criminal action? How about spying on the Chinese government?

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    re: Snowden embraces American flag in WIRED photo shoot[W:511]

    Quote Originally Posted by jamesrage View Post
    1.Its a link to a forum.
    In which every single release is hyperlinked and sourced.

    2. Most of the links are about the US spying on allies and other non-enemies including a news agency.
    Spying on other countries is why we have intelligence agencies. That is their Title 50 responsibility.

    3.Drone use should only be in countries we are at war with.I could care less how many alledged terrorist leaders they killed because for every alleded terrorist killed there are many innocent civilians killed.Yes innocent civilians get killed in war,however we are not at war with those countries we are using drones in.
    that's correct - we are at war with the networks in those countries, which is why those countries often work with us to destroy them. When we drone in Yemen or Pakistan, it is with those nations' agreement.

    4.Its kinds of hard to care about all those things considered the betrayal by the US government.
    So you admit that Snowden enables al-Qa'ida, Russia, China, and a host of bad actors, and you don't care because you think that we are the bad guy. Got it.

    6.Those with their mouths on the cocks on the government don't seem to care about the government spying on the American people.Heck some of them even go as far to claim the government isn't spying on us or that snowden should have turned himself in to the one group of people ****ting on the constitution as though he should pay for his good deed.
    Circular logic in order to justify screwing over other vets? how astonishing. Snowden is no better than an Eva Montes, a Kim Philby, a Robert Hansen, or an Aldrich Ames. We have good Marines (and soldiers, and agents) who got burned because of Snowden, and you run around accusing them because that fact is inconvenient for someone with Snowden's spooge on his face.
    Last edited by cpwill; 11-13-14 at 11:45 PM.

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    re: Snowden embraces American flag in WIRED photo shoot[W:511]

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    Do you consider spying on al-Qa'ida to be a criminal action? How about spying on the Chinese government?
    That suggests superficial analysis, which is always incomplete.

    For example, the case is pretty solid that AQ is a creature of our very own CIA, so "spying" on them is somehow irrelevant and misleading.

    As to spying on the Chinese, no I do not consider that to be a crime.

    Spying on foreign entities is just the way it goes, and I have no problem with that.

    Violating the Fourth Amendment and certain federal statutes? Yes, I have a problem with that, and as soon-to-be-ex Senator Wyden has pointed out, if the American people knew what he knew (regarding illegal government actions) they would be shocked.

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    re: Snowden embraces American flag in WIRED photo shoot[W:511]

    Quote Originally Posted by Wiggen View Post
    Administration propaqanda? He took American secrets and he fled to Russia, a country currently run by a former KGB Colonel. Those are simply facts.

    You are incredibly nave or simply prone to not liking your country very much if you don't believe he took military secrets with him and that the Russians now have those secrets.

    I've been shot at for my country, have you?


    I love my country, I hate my government.


    Please try again.
    Let evil swiftly befall those who have wrongly condemned us

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    re: Snowden embraces American flag in WIRED photo shoot[W:511]

    Quote Originally Posted by ReverendHellh0und View Post
    I've been shot at for my country, have you?


    I love my country, I hate my government.


    Please try again.
    Amen Brother!

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