Page 38 of 63 FirstFirst ... 28363738394048 ... LastLast
Results 371 to 380 of 623

Thread: Snowden embraces American flag in WIRED photo shoot[W:511]

  1. #371
    better late than pregnant
    Gonzo Rodeo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    Here
    Last Seen
    Today @ 02:42 AM
    Lean
    Private
    Posts
    4,133

    re: Snowden embraces American flag in WIRED photo shoot[W:511]

    Quote Originally Posted by OldWorldOrder View Post
    Literally all this boils down to is you think it should be illegal so that's all that matters. It's irrelevant what anyone else thinks, Gonzo Rodeo's interpretation is all that matters.

    Unfortunately, Gonzo Rodeo is not the arbiter of what's illegal and what's not. More's the pity.
    So you clearly can't rebut my argument. That's obvious to all now.

    The Fourth Amendment says "you can't do this". FISC and the NSA are beyond the purview of the Supreme Court and judicial review, so nobody could say "this is totally legal" if there was no possibility of review. Perhaps this is all legal, and perhaps the USSC will make a comment and find an exception somewhere in the law. But that's only possible now because of Snowden.
    "Political speech and writing are largely the defense of the indefensible. . . . Thus political language has to consist largely of euphemism, question-begging and sheer cloudy vagueness."
    ~Orwell, Politics and the English Language

  2. #372
    Sage
    OldWorldOrder's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Last Seen
    10-12-15 @ 12:13 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    5,820

    re: Snowden embraces American flag in WIRED photo shoot[W:511]

    lol no, it doesn't say that. You INTERPRET it to say that. Finer legal minds than yours disagree. And you just stomach that.

    Moreover, I'm still chucking at you arguing so vociferously about something that's "irrelevant". Because only your interpretation is relevant. The irony, of course, is that if someone's interpretation is irrelevant here, it's certainly not that of the federal judges overseeing this, that disagree with you.
    Last edited by OldWorldOrder; 11-13-14 at 11:45 AM.
    The whole modern world has divided itself into Conservatives and Progressives. The business of Progressives is to go on making mistakes. The business of Conservatives is to prevent mistakes from being corrected.
    -GK Chesterton

  3. #373
    better late than pregnant
    Gonzo Rodeo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    Here
    Last Seen
    Today @ 02:42 AM
    Lean
    Private
    Posts
    4,133

    re: Snowden embraces American flag in WIRED photo shoot[W:511]

    Quote Originally Posted by OldWorldOrder View Post
    lol no, it doesn't say that. You INTERPRET it to say that. Finer legal minds than yours disagree. And you just stomach that.

    Moreover, I'm still chucking at you arguing so vociferously about something that's "irrelevant". Because only your interpretation is relevant. The irony, of course, is that if someone's interpretation is irrelevant here, it's certainly not that of the federal judges overseeing this, that disagree with you.
    "Finer legal minds" like yours?!? Do you realize you are doing the very thing you are accusing me of? YOU have passed judgment on the NSA's activities as "perfectly legal", while open courts almost immediately started to say the opposite once they found out about the NSA's activities. Try responding to the arguments I've made. It's all there already.
    "Political speech and writing are largely the defense of the indefensible. . . . Thus political language has to consist largely of euphemism, question-begging and sheer cloudy vagueness."
    ~Orwell, Politics and the English Language

  4. #374
    Sage
    OldWorldOrder's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Last Seen
    10-12-15 @ 12:13 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    5,820

    re: Snowden embraces American flag in WIRED photo shoot[W:511]

    Like the actual federal judges overseeing this? Like the entire OGC of NSA? You act as if there haven't been rulings that oppose your viewpoint. Have there been any?
    The whole modern world has divided itself into Conservatives and Progressives. The business of Progressives is to go on making mistakes. The business of Conservatives is to prevent mistakes from being corrected.
    -GK Chesterton

  5. #375
    better late than pregnant
    Gonzo Rodeo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    Here
    Last Seen
    Today @ 02:42 AM
    Lean
    Private
    Posts
    4,133

    re: Snowden embraces American flag in WIRED photo shoot[W:511]

    Quote Originally Posted by OldWorldOrder View Post
    Like the actual federal judges overseeing this? Like the entire OGC of NSA? You act as if there haven't been rulings that oppose your viewpoint. Have there been any?
    ...you mean, all those Federal Judges on the FISA court? You act like all the judges who have weighed in so far are impartial and have been subject to judicial review.

    I've already detailed why the NSA watching itself doesn't make a lot of sense. You should really try responding to one of my arguments. This strawman/cherrypick shtick is starting to get kind of old.
    "Political speech and writing are largely the defense of the indefensible. . . . Thus political language has to consist largely of euphemism, question-begging and sheer cloudy vagueness."
    ~Orwell, Politics and the English Language

  6. #376
    ANTI**ANTIFA
    ReverendHellh0und's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Temple of Solomon
    Last Seen
    Yesterday @ 06:22 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian
    Posts
    75,740

    re: Snowden embraces American flag in WIRED photo shoot[W:511]

    I am more concerned with what the NSA has done to us, than what Snowden has done to the NSA...


    what did he actually reveal:


    1. Secret court orders allow NSA to sweep up Americans' phone records
    2. PRISM
    3. Britain's version of the NSA taps fiber optic cables around the world
    4. NSA spies on foreign countries and world leaders
    5. XKeyscore, the program that sees everything
    6. NSA efforts to crack encryption and undermine Internet security
    7. NSA elite hacking team techniques revealed
    8. NSA cracks Google and Yahoo data center links
    9. NSA collects text messages
    10. NSA intercepts all phone calls in two countries



    Now some of these, meh, yeah, probably ok, and should not have said anything. But "treason" which is what they charged him with? I don't think so. I think the NSA has been far more treasonous than snowden towards the US Constitution and it's people. (Hi, Carnivore!)
    Let evil swiftly befall those who have wrongly condemned us

  7. #377
    Sage
    OldWorldOrder's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Last Seen
    10-12-15 @ 12:13 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    5,820

    re: Snowden embraces American flag in WIRED photo shoot[W:511]

    Quote Originally Posted by Gonzo Rodeo View Post
    ...you mean, all those Federal Judges on the FISA court? You act like all the judges who have weighed in so far are impartial and have been subject to judicial review.

    I've already detailed why the NSA watching itself doesn't make a lot of sense. You should really try responding to one of my arguments. This strawman/cherrypick shtick is starting to get kind of old.
    Oh, I forgot: your legal education trumps theirs. But no, there's others. And you know this. You want it to be illegal. In your interpretation, it is. That doesn't mean it actually is, though. Your response to that minor point? "That's irrelevant".
    The whole modern world has divided itself into Conservatives and Progressives. The business of Progressives is to go on making mistakes. The business of Conservatives is to prevent mistakes from being corrected.
    -GK Chesterton

  8. #378
    Sage
    OldWorldOrder's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Last Seen
    10-12-15 @ 12:13 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    5,820

    re: Snowden embraces American flag in WIRED photo shoot[W:511]

    Quote Originally Posted by ReverendHellh0und View Post
    I am more concerned with what the NSA has done to us, than what Snowden has done to the NSA...


    what did he actually reveal:


    1. Secret court orders allow NSA to sweep up Americans' phone records
    2. PRISM
    3. Britain's version of the NSA taps fiber optic cables around the world
    4. NSA spies on foreign countries and world leaders
    5. XKeyscore, the program that sees everything
    6. NSA efforts to crack encryption and undermine Internet security
    7. NSA elite hacking team techniques revealed
    8. NSA cracks Google and Yahoo data center links
    9. NSA collects text messages
    10. NSA intercepts all phone calls in two countries



    Now some of these, meh, yeah, probably ok, and should not have said anything. But "treason" which is what they charged him with? I don't think so. I think the NSA has been far more treasonous than snowden towards the US Constitution and it's people. (Hi, Carnivore!)
    Shockingly, spy agencies spy. I know, I know, I was surprised, too.
    The whole modern world has divided itself into Conservatives and Progressives. The business of Progressives is to go on making mistakes. The business of Conservatives is to prevent mistakes from being corrected.
    -GK Chesterton

  9. #379
    ANTI**ANTIFA
    ReverendHellh0und's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Temple of Solomon
    Last Seen
    Yesterday @ 06:22 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian
    Posts
    75,740

    re: Snowden embraces American flag in WIRED photo shoot[W:511]

    Quote Originally Posted by OldWorldOrder View Post
    Shockingly, spy agencies spy. I know, I know, I was surprised, too.


    Those particular ones I am "meh" about.


    but then again we spied on Germany, why? What about all the other spying such as the domestic spying? you are ok with that?
    Let evil swiftly befall those who have wrongly condemned us

  10. #380
    Sage
    OldWorldOrder's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Last Seen
    10-12-15 @ 12:13 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    5,820

    re: Snowden embraces American flag in WIRED photo shoot[W:511]

    Quote Originally Posted by ReverendHellh0und View Post
    Those particular ones I am "meh" about.


    but then again we spied on Germany, why? What about all the other spying such as the domestic spying? you are ok with that?
    Metadata collection isn't spying, it's holding the data because the phone companies don't. If they did, it wouldn't have been an issue. Warrants are still required to access that data, so it's hardly spying.

    As far as spying on Germany...everyone outside of Five Eyes spies on everyone else, that's just how it works.
    The whole modern world has divided itself into Conservatives and Progressives. The business of Progressives is to go on making mistakes. The business of Conservatives is to prevent mistakes from being corrected.
    -GK Chesterton

Page 38 of 63 FirstFirst ... 28363738394048 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •