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Thread: Snowden embraces American flag in WIRED photo shoot[W:511]

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    re: Snowden embraces American flag in WIRED photo shoot[W:511]

    Quote Originally Posted by joG View Post
    You didn't get it again. There is a difference between publishing domestic breaches of the Constitution or law and publishing international security matters. Snowden did both. Had he only published the domestic things, we might talk about a certain legitimacy. In the case of the other material there can be no leniency, if we want to be at all rational.
    No sir, not in the least persuasive.

    Exposing the criminal actions of government, the treasonous actions of government, is NEVER a crime. It is always the patriotic thing to do.

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    re: Snowden embraces American flag in WIRED photo shoot[W:511]

    Quote Originally Posted by Henry David View Post
    No sir, not in the least persuasive.

    Exposing the criminal actions of government, the treasonous actions of government, is NEVER a crime. It is always the patriotic thing to do.
    While you might have a point, where there is clear and present criminal behavior by government (personell?) is involved,
    where there is none or such of lesser gravity as was the case in the nsa spying activities, there can be no excuse or clemency. If, as Snowden did, the security and wellbeing of the country is severely harmed, punishment must be harsh. After all, it is worse than individual crimes like homicide.

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    re: Snowden embraces American flag in WIRED photo shoot[W:511]

    Quote Originally Posted by Henry David View Post
    No sir, not in the least persuasive.

    Exposing the criminal actions of government, the treasonous actions of government, is NEVER a crime. It is always the patriotic thing to do.
    If Snowden were doing only that which affects the citizens of this country then I'd say 'yeah, sure'...But that isn't all he is doing now is it?
    Americans are so enamored of equality that they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom.

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    re: Snowden embraces American flag in WIRED photo shoot[W:511]

    Quote Originally Posted by Henry David View Post
    No sir, not in the least persuasive.

    Exposing the criminal actions of government, the treasonous actions of government, is NEVER a crime. It is always the patriotic thing to do.
    hey, I'm not disagreeing with you. You can name him patriot of the century for all I care.

    The point is, when you light a match, throw it into home, and watch the home burn, don't have the idiotic temerity to then ask to be LET BACK IN the house after the fire has been extinguished. And don't WHINE about how unfair it is.
    You can talk until you turn blue, but you are not getting invited back in. so sorry

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    re: Snowden embraces American flag in WIRED photo shoot[W:511]

    Quote Originally Posted by joG View Post
    While you might have a point, where there is clear and present criminal behavior by government (personell?) is involved,
    where there is none or such of lesser gravity as was the case in the nsa spying activities, there can be no excuse or clemency. If, as Snowden did, the security and wellbeing of the country is severely harmed, punishment must be harsh. After all, it is worse than individual crimes like homicide.
    I'm not sure I get your point.

    Are you saying that the NSA violating the Fourth Amendment on a massive scale is not important, a "lesser gravity" offense?

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    re: Snowden embraces American flag in WIRED photo shoot[W:511]

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    If Snowden were doing only that which affects the citizens of this country then I'd say 'yeah, sure'...But that isn't all he is doing now is it?
    Hopefully (but not likely) what Snowden did will cause the government to change its ways, and operate in a manner that follows the Supreme Law of the Land. Hopefully, but not likely, what Snowden did will cause the government to operate in a way that complies with "no warrant shall issue but upon probable cause".

    Hopefully, but not likely. Constitutional governance is not a reality in this country today.

    Snowden has raised the awareness of the american citizens, but my bet is that it will NOT change the way the government operates.

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    re: Snowden embraces American flag in WIRED photo shoot[W:511]

    Quote Originally Posted by Henry David View Post
    I'm not sure I get your point.

    Are you saying that the NSA violating the Fourth Amendment on a massive scale is not important, a "lesser gravity" offense?
    No. I said that what nsa and cia were doing in the international theater was mostly completely legal under US law. It was unnecessary to publish it in any event as the domestic information would have created enough domestic dynamic. Publishing that info might have allowed clemency. As he published the foreign material clemency forbids itself.

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    re: Snowden embraces American flag in WIRED photo shoot[W:511]

    Quote Originally Posted by joG View Post
    No. I said that what nsa and cia were doing in the international theater was mostly completely legal under US law. It was unnecessary to publish it in any event as the domestic information would have created enough domestic dynamic. Publishing that info might have allowed clemency. As he published the foreign material clemency forbids itself.
    What a bunch of gobbly-gook.

    But, that is to be expected when a person is attempting to rationalize and support criminal government actions.

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    re: Snowden embraces American flag in WIRED photo shoot[W:511]

    Quote Originally Posted by JoeTrumps View Post
    hey, I'm not disagreeing with you. You can name him patriot of the century for all I care.

    The point is, when you light a match, throw it into home, and watch the home burn, don't have the idiotic temerity to then ask to be LET BACK IN the house after the fire has been extinguished. And don't WHINE about how unfair it is.
    You can talk until you turn blue, but you are not getting invited back in. so sorry
    Exposing a government agency violating the highest law of the land, IS NOT comparable to arson. And it had the very desired effect of producing bi-partisan legislation to shore up the forth amendment and reign in the NSA. You should be thanking Snowden, and not diminishing him.
    Killing one person is murder, killing 100,000 is foreign policy

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    re: Snowden embraces American flag in WIRED photo shoot[W:511]

    Quote Originally Posted by joG View Post
    I am not sure I know what you mean with that.
    Reporting illegal or other wrongful activities to the same people who (probably) authorized it, or have an interest in keeping it secret, is not effective. There needs to an independent body with no conflict of interest to report problems to for a whistleblowing process to be effective.

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