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Thread: Snowden embraces American flag in WIRED photo shoot[W:511]

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    re: Snowden embraces American flag in WIRED photo shoot[W:511]

    Quote Originally Posted by X Factor View Post
    Oh, you're right, clearly the thing to do is run to the Russians. Look, I know there are some that think the US is the great evil in the world and like anything that harms the US, a lot of us just aren't in that place.
    Listen, as one person who thinks that too many people on here like to white wash the old Soviet Union and some how compare us to them, I love my country and believe that overall it's a force for good. Still, I'd love to see you explain exactly what he was suppose to do at the time? Give himself up to government that wanted him hung?

    Quote Originally Posted by OldWorldOrder View Post
    Well, some people consider the FISA courts to be meaningful restraints. Certainly legal restraint. I mean according to those federal judges, anyway. And near blanket coverage is simply not true, period. Unless you have a very liberal definition of "near".

    Do you wonder why, of the 40,000+ folks who work at NSA, the vast, vast majority of them have no problem with what it does? They who know much more of it than normal folks? Is it because they're all bad people? Dumb? Or could it be something else?
    We don't know the kind of folks the NSA looks for when they are screening candidates. But I will tell you one thing; many in the NSA and intelligence believe that it's better to be safe than to be free. If it means tearing up the constitution and the rights within to save a few Americans, many of them would do so. These people are hired to protect Americans, not the values they stand for.

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    re: Snowden embraces American flag in WIRED photo shoot[W:511]

    Quote Originally Posted by Risky Thicket View Post
    I wonder how you know that the vast majority of them have no problem with what the NSA does?
    Well, the ones on the FISA court allowed what they allowed and did not what they did not. What do you think that means?

    The NSA is compartmentalized and as such the vast majority of the NSA doesn't know what the vast majority of the NSA does.
    Is it? They certainly know about SIGINT.

    Even then I don't know that there has been any published survey or research regarding the question.
    Are they slaves? If they don't like it, they can leave, right?

    I'll take "Something else" for $50, Bob.
    Ah, what's that then? Are they evil? 40,000+ evildoers?

    Perhaps we should ask Snowden why no one speaks out publicly.
    Or just drive to like central Maryland around lunchtime and ask basically anyone.
    The whole modern world has divided itself into Conservatives and Progressives. The business of Progressives is to go on making mistakes. The business of Conservatives is to prevent mistakes from being corrected.
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    re: Snowden embraces American flag in WIRED photo shoot[W:511]

    Quote Originally Posted by Hamster Buddha View Post
    We don't know the kind of folks the NSA looks for when they are screening candidates.
    Who is exactly is "we"? Have you asked around? They have a website.

    But I will tell you one thing; many in the NSA and intelligence believe that it's better to be safe than to be free. If it means tearing up the constitution and the rights within to save a few Americans, many of them would do so. These people are hired to protect Americans, not the values they stand for.
    Exactly! There's a balance between freedom and safety. 100% of either is very bad. NSA has the mission of providing safety. The legislative and judicial branches have the mission (among many others) of ensuring that it does that without compromising freedom. Seems to me the system is working but...perhaps some guys on the internet who are involved in none of those three organizations know better.
    The whole modern world has divided itself into Conservatives and Progressives. The business of Progressives is to go on making mistakes. The business of Conservatives is to prevent mistakes from being corrected.
    -GK Chesterton

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    re: Snowden embraces American flag in WIRED photo shoot[W:511]

    America needs more selfless patriots like Edward Snowden. Especially in the government. He pretty much ruined his own life in the name of our freedom.

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    re: Snowden embraces American flag in WIRED photo shoot[W:511]

    Quote Originally Posted by Binary_Digit View Post
    America needs more selfless patriots like Edward Snowden. Especially in the government. He pretty much ruined his own life in the name of our freedom.
    Yeah, I've been meaning to hand over documents about American intelligence operations oversees, I'm just waiting to decide on which day I want to make my own federal holiday. April is a little light on those, right? On the other hand, these August days are nice and it'd be nice to be out and about. Hmmm...once I decide, though, I'm going to turn over lots of stuff like that and hurt American intelligence collection against foreign targets and become a super big hero and a selfless patriot like Snowden! I can't wait!
    The whole modern world has divided itself into Conservatives and Progressives. The business of Progressives is to go on making mistakes. The business of Conservatives is to prevent mistakes from being corrected.
    -GK Chesterton

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    re: Snowden embraces American flag in WIRED photo shoot[W:511]

    Quote Originally Posted by OldWorldOrder View Post
    Exactly! There's a balance between freedom and safety. 100% of either is very bad. NSA has the mission of providing safety. The legislative and judicial branches have the mission (among many others) of ensuring that it does that without compromising freedom. Seems to me the system is working but...perhaps some guys on the internet who are involved in none of those three organizations know better.
    It really all boils down to how blindly you're willing to trust the government. Some people could never imagine the possibility of the government misusing there resources, and these are the ones that often remark "I've got nothing to hide, the government can monitor all the calls of mine they want". The problem here is that this information is stored, for anyone who knows how to get access to it. This also is the same government that in the past few years have cracked down on political opponents, seized information from reporters, and have murdered it's own citizens without a trial.

    How far does a government need to go before one starts to get concerned?

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    re: Snowden embraces American flag in WIRED photo shoot[W:511]

    Quote Originally Posted by OldWorldOrder View Post
    See, if this was agreed upon by everyone, you'd have a point. But instead, your argument basically rests upon this statement as if it's a universal fact. Well, it's not. That's the rub.
    From all I've seen the NSA has nearly blanket coverage of all communications - that data is being collected. At the very least, the who, what, when and where is being collected, if not the content, and whether the content is being gathered is subject to controversy. And so the only check on it is their ability to look at it. But do you trust NSA, and all future NSA's to not look at data they have? If you're a protester, activist, what I think you MUST assume is that ALL your communications are monitored, collected, and viewed by the police state. It's just a more effective version of the Stasi.

    And beyond that, the only reason we think we might know SOME of what NSA is doing (which NSA officials have repeatedly lied about, or told deliberate half truths) is because of the Snowden leaks.

    What some people have objected to is Snowden's leaks of programs we use to spy on other nations - including pretty massive efforts of industrial espionage. Well, either we believe in the right to privacy or we don't. It's not a consistent position to protect the right to privacy of AMERICAN CITIZENS, but then believe all other world inhabitants deserve zero privacy, if their personal information benefits the U.S.

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    re: Snowden embraces American flag in WIRED photo shoot[W:511]

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    What a putz this guy is....I hope when he is caught he spends the rest of his natural life behind bars.
    I wish the NSA would be thrown in jail instead.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

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    re: Snowden embraces American flag in WIRED photo shoot[W:511]

    Quote Originally Posted by Binary_Digit View Post
    America needs more selfless patriots like Edward Snowden. Especially in the government. He pretty much ruined his own life in the name of our freedom.
    Selfless patriots the likes of Snowden are far and few between.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

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    re: Snowden embraces American flag in WIRED photo shoot[W:511]

    Quote Originally Posted by Dezaad View Post
    Oh please. X Factor was just being dishonest. He knows perfectly well that the U S Government and it's allies hemmed him in. Snowden is using the Russians to remain free, while the Russians are using him to embarrass our government. This gives the opportunity for our government to try to propagandize about some kind of clandestine relationship. The stupid ignorantly parrot this idea, while the intelligent dishonestly do so.
    Can't find a picture of a hammer hitting a nail square on at present but, imagine it.
    Killing one person is murder, killing 100,000 is foreign policy

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