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Thread: Snowden embraces American flag in WIRED photo shoot[W:511]

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    re: Snowden embraces American flag in WIRED photo shoot[W:511]

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    Working more than one thread...I changed it....Point still stands...
    Yeah, I am. The point made was that the law was broken and that is that. I brought up the point that this isn't so black and white, as people who we treat as heroes were once criminals themselves. Their actions exposed a much greater wrongdoing.
    "Political speech and writing are largely the defense of the indefensible. . . . Thus political language has to consist largely of euphemism, question-begging and sheer cloudy vagueness."
    ~Orwell, Politics and the English Language

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    re: Snowden embraces American flag in WIRED photo shoot[W:511]

    Quote Originally Posted by Gonzo Rodeo View Post
    Sirhan Sirhan committed murder, so, there's that.
    And Rosa Parks sat on a bus, so there's that. None of this has anything to do with the topic whatsoever.

    Many people who have done the same thing Snowden has done (even "leaking"/exposing secrets about the same agency) enjoy the label of "whistleblower".
    People who've disclosed information about overseas intelligence operations enjoy many other labels, too. None of them very positive.

    Nobody who has committed a single instance of political assassination has been exonerated as a purveyor of justice.
    Great? I don't know why you're bringing other people into it, so I thought it was a fun game we could play. Just name people who committed crimes. We can probably go all day!
    The whole modern world has divided itself into Conservatives and Progressives. The business of Progressives is to go on making mistakes. The business of Conservatives is to prevent mistakes from being corrected.
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    re: Snowden embraces American flag in WIRED photo shoot[W:511]

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    I have....Also, this thread is about Snowden, not the NSA...That is just you trying to strike a false equivalency to muddy the water...You should really stick to the topic.
    Snowden outed the NSA, very relevant.
    Killing one person is murder, killing 100,000 is foreign policy

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    re: Snowden embraces American flag in WIRED photo shoot[W:511]

    Quote Originally Posted by Montecresto View Post
    It goes beyond ILLEGAL, its unconstitutional. Remember, "the illegal we do immediately, the unconstitutional takes a little longer".

    Declassified secret rulings found NSA spying program unconstitutional
    22 August 2013
    Three secret US court opinions declassified Wednesday show that the NSA collected at least 58,000 emails and other US communications per year that were “wholly domestic” and completely unrelated to terrorism. According to a senior US official quoted in USA Today, the court opinions were declassified by Director of National Intelligence James Clapper because Clapper believed they show “effective self-policing” by the NSA.

    NSA Declassifies Documents Revealing Unconstitutional Spying On U.S. Emails | ThinkProgress
    Okay, I see the root of this disagreement with OldWorldOrder.

    I think the NSA does some stuff that is legal and have been caught doing some stuff that is not legal. I will not state that everything the NSA does is either legal or illegal.

    I would suggest reading the ruling of Judge John Bates from the FISC.
    http://www.lawfareblog.com/wp-conten...exemptions.pdf

    PAGE 28 Judge Bates states:
    But for the first time, the government has now advised the Court that the volume and nature of the information it has been collecting is fundamentally different from what the court had been led to believe.

    Page 29 Judge Bates, FISC, states:
    "The court is UNABLE (emphasis mine) to find that NSA's minimization procedures, as the government proposes to apply them in connection with MCTs are "reasonably designed in light of the purpose and technique of the particular [surveillance or physical search], to minimize the acquisition and retention, and prohibit the dissemination, of nonpublicly available information concerning unconsenting United States persons consistent with the need ot the United States to obtain, produce and disseminate foreign intelligence information"

    Same page he continues:
    The court is also UNABLE (emphasis mine) to find that NSA's targeting and minimization procedures, as the government proposes to implement them in connection with MCTs, ARE INCONSISTENT WITH THE FOURTH AMENDMENT (emphasis mine).

    MCT=multi-communication transactions

    I also recommend New FISC Pen Register Opinion: It

    I would say illegal stuff is going on. Just because nobody has gone to jail doesn't mean that someone hasn't broken the law. Hell, look at the IRS and VA situation, just to name a couple. Several Judges have had to reign in the NSA and the FBI because they collected data that they weren't authorized to collect.
    Last edited by NonoBadDog; 08-16-14 at 03:07 PM.

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    re: Snowden embraces American flag in WIRED photo shoot[W:511]

    Quote Originally Posted by Hard Truth View Post
    Being a whistle blower does require being a martyr.
    Correction of typo: Being a whistle blower does not require being a martyr.

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    re: Snowden embraces American flag in WIRED photo shoot[W:511]

    Quote Originally Posted by joG View Post
    It is not true that your correspondence is protected, when you send it by postcard. And I do not believe it is necessarily a good idea to expand the 4th or protect meta data or even content in all cases. It is, however, very necessary to make absolutely clear, what is and what is not protected.
    Since you think metadata is not private information, to prove you are not a hypocrite, post your phone bill in this thread.

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    re: Snowden embraces American flag in WIRED photo shoot[W:511]

    ...?


    ......?




    .........?



    1- A phone bill doesn't have metadata

    2- The internet and NSA aren't the same thing

    Such a stupid, stupid random premise.
    The whole modern world has divided itself into Conservatives and Progressives. The business of Progressives is to go on making mistakes. The business of Conservatives is to prevent mistakes from being corrected.
    -GK Chesterton

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    re: Snowden embraces American flag in WIRED photo shoot[W:511]

    Quote Originally Posted by OldWorldOrder View Post
    And Rosa Parks sat on a bus, so there's that. None of this has anything to do with the topic whatsoever.



    People who've disclosed information about overseas intelligence operations enjoy many other labels, too. None of them very positive.



    Great? I don't know why you're bringing other people into it, so I thought it was a fun game we could play. Just name people who committed crimes. We can probably go all day!
    The idea presented by you and cpwill in this thread suggest that the law is black and white. I have demonstrated that it is not with the example of civil disobedience. People like Rosa Parks broke the law, and are now heroes and champions of civil rights.
    "Political speech and writing are largely the defense of the indefensible. . . . Thus political language has to consist largely of euphemism, question-begging and sheer cloudy vagueness."
    ~Orwell, Politics and the English Language

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    re: Snowden embraces American flag in WIRED photo shoot[W:511]

    Quote Originally Posted by Gonzo Rodeo View Post
    Yeah, I am. The point made was that the law was broken and that is that. I brought up the point that this isn't so black and white, as people who we treat as heroes were once criminals themselves. Their actions exposed a much greater wrongdoing.
    The law was broken, and Snowden has the right to face his accusers in court. If he weren't such a coward POS, he'd do that.
    Americans are so enamored of equality that they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom.

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    re: Snowden embraces American flag in WIRED photo shoot[W:511]

    Quote Originally Posted by Montecresto View Post
    Snowden outed the NSA, very relevant.
    Then he should come on back and put it all in the open to a judge. If he is a true whistle blower, there are laws to protect him, if he is just another petulant, cowardly, child that wants to throw a wrench into things, then he'll go to jail.
    Americans are so enamored of equality that they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom.

    Alexis de Tocqueville

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