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Thread: Snowden embraces American flag in WIRED photo shoot[W:511]

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    re: Snowden embraces American flag in WIRED photo shoot[W:511]

    Quote Originally Posted by Hard Truth View Post
    Once again the defenders of the NSAs metadata collection program are invited to post their phone bills online to prove that it isn't private information.
    I gave it to NSA. Actually I gave them full scope for the spring and summer if 2013, a waiver signed and everything- much more that you ever have.

    Why would you conflate that with posting it online? Who told you the two were similar?
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    re: Snowden embraces American flag in WIRED photo shoot[W:511]

    Sad people can't come out and just flat admit what the law currently is. Says a lot about where they're arguing from n
    The whole modern world has divided itself into Conservatives and Progressives. The business of Progressives is to go on making mistakes. The business of Conservatives is to prevent mistakes from being corrected.
    -GK Chesterton

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    re: Snowden embraces American flag in WIRED photo shoot[W:511]

    Quote Originally Posted by OldWorldOrder View Post
    Sad people can't come out and just flat admit what the law currently is. Says a lot about where they're arguing from n
    Rosa Parks broke the law.
    "Political speech and writing are largely the defense of the indefensible. . . . Thus political language has to consist largely of euphemism, question-begging and sheer cloudy vagueness."
    ~Orwell, Politics and the English Language

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    re: Snowden embraces American flag in WIRED photo shoot[W:511]

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    With absolute certainty? man, I don't have absolute certainty you are even a human being, and not some kind of DebateBot under development from google.

    If the best you can reach for is that it is technically possible that he isn't - even if it is overwhelmingly probable that he is.... well, I accept that position.
    Strawman. I never said "with absolute certainty" did I? I just said that you don't actually know if he is or not. That doesn't require any certainty. It just requires a "yes" or a "no".

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    No, I am assessing based off of the available evidence.
    And what "available evidence" do you have? Please do share it with us. I'm sure that you could at least provide pictures of any documents that you may have saying that he is indeed giving Putin information.

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    yeah. Because I would have been on the jury.

    Snowden ran because he was guilty it's pretty hard to deny 4 laptops full of stolen data.
    Again a strawman. I never said that YOU would be on the jury. But instead said "with people like you". IE: There are plenty of people in the US that think enough like you do that no matter what they would convict.
    I have an answer for everything...you may not like the answer or it may not satisfy your curiosity..but it will still be an answer. ~ Kal'Stang

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    re: Snowden embraces American flag in WIRED photo shoot[W:511]

    Quote Originally Posted by Gonzo Rodeo View Post
    Rosa Parks broke the law.
    Okay? Thousands of people have broken the law, what's your point? What's the the law right now? Can you say it?
    The whole modern world has divided itself into Conservatives and Progressives. The business of Progressives is to go on making mistakes. The business of Conservatives is to prevent mistakes from being corrected.
    -GK Chesterton

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    re: Snowden embraces American flag in WIRED photo shoot[W:511]

    Quote Originally Posted by Montecresto View Post
    My chief complaint is domestic spying, and my fourth amendment protections. Diplomats can expect in the course of discharging their duties they might spy on one another. I don't run in such circles, and I disagree with anybody that denies that I would have an expectation of privacy. Unless of course there is probable cause that I have forfeited it.
    Does this mean, you would not want data mining to go on? Or is the limit the metadata of communications, if content is kept secret until due cause is established by a court? Does the due cause have to be published, where it endangers third parties?

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    re: Snowden embraces American flag in WIRED photo shoot[W:511]

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    Pretty much all technology falls under the Bill of Rights. Just because you get GPS, doesn't mean you can arbitrarily attach GPS to anyone (even in public) without cause and warrant. There must be CLEAR and CONSISTENT oversight from the SCOTUS (FISA must be lesser to the SCOTUS, no federal court can exist that does not belong directly to the SCOTUS). Content should be screened by civil liberties groups (which could be established) to assess whether or not the information warrants secrecy. Anything that doesn't becomes public record.
    I more or less agree with that, though, I would not want a lot of material screened by civil liberty groups. That would be much too public for some types of information. Also a MO must be found to secure information given the court for oversight purposes. But do I understand you to say that meta data and stuff in fora or other venues open to the public can be data mined?

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    re: Snowden embraces American flag in WIRED photo shoot[W:511]

    Quote Originally Posted by Gonzo Rodeo View Post
    Civil disobedience now must involve unjust suffering?
    Yup. That's why it's civil disobedience instead of just "law-breaking".

    Nice roll back of the goal post there. You just got done saying that the law is the law... and now, apparently, the law only counts if it makes you suffer. I see.
    ....do you think that civil disobedience is the law? I think you are confused.

    How long have you been a democrat?
    you are accusing people of attacking civil rights icons as a desperate attempt to spin away from the fact that your logic in this debate is fail. If anyone here is acting like a Democrat, it ain't me

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    re: Snowden embraces American flag in WIRED photo shoot[W:511]

    Quote Originally Posted by joG View Post
    I more or less agree with that, though, I would not want a lot of material screened by civil liberty groups. That would be much too public for some types of information. Also a MO must be found to secure information given the court for oversight purposes. But do I understand you to say that meta data and stuff in fora or other venues open to the public can be data mined?
    No, I think that we have to strengthen even more the understanding of " persons, houses, papers, and effects". My data is part of my papers and effect and cannot be searched without proper warrant. Even more, I think we need to define proper usage of data. If I buy something from Amazon, Amazon can use that information to direct market to me. But as it's still my data, they may not sell it or give it away or allow government search without warrant. That's my data, and it must be protected.

    As we further plunge into the electronic era and digital world, it will become more important to expand 4th amendment rights to protect our information, or data, our person, our houses, our papers, and our effects.
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    re: Snowden embraces American flag in WIRED photo shoot[W:511]

    Quote Originally Posted by Kal'Stang View Post
    That is the phone company and the phone companies personal use business. We signed agreements with the company which gave them the access. We did not sign such an agreement with the government/NSA. Try again.
    See, that's the argument that falls on its face to me. I signed a contract with Verizon, and not the NSA! There's a dude on here that works now, or has worked in the NSA. Arguing with him is fruitless. The piles of evidence, even testimony from other former NSA employees, document this dangerous agency, and its crimes.
    Killing one person is murder, killing 100,000 is foreign policy

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