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Thread: Snowden embraces American flag in WIRED photo shoot[W:511]

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    re: Snowden embraces American flag in WIRED photo shoot[W:511]

    Quote Originally Posted by OldWorldOrder View Post
    And they know it better than you, no?
    "Those that would give up a little liberty for a little security deserve neither."

    Quote Originally Posted by OldWorldOrder View Post
    ...okay? It's their job to make that determination, not you. You're just whining because they don't agree with you.
    Why the hell should anyone trust a FISA court? No accountability. No oversight. Everything is done secretly. Thanks but no thanks. You might trust such a system. I don't. Never will.
    I have an answer for everything...you may not like the answer or it may not satisfy your curiosity..but it will still be an answer. ~ Kal'Stang

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    re: Snowden embraces American flag in WIRED photo shoot[W:511]

    Quote Originally Posted by NonoBadDog View Post
    I have to agree, as much as that pains me to do.

    This problem isn't a right/left thing. It is a govt. problem. It was created by govt on both sides.

    Without Snowden we wouldn't know about abuses of the NSA and DHS, among other agencies. I think the govt is way out of control when it comes to civil liberties.

    Cassius Clay didn't believe in fighting in a war. He refused to report to the draft board. He did this and willingly went to jail and paid the price. That is sacrifice.

    Snowden did what he thought was right. I think there are more avenues he could have pursued but they would have been very dangerous. He still would have had to break the law and would have exposed himself to jail or execution. The difference between Snowden and Clay are that Clay went to jail for what he thought was right. Snowden hasn't.

    I think what Snowden did was positive over all BUT, if he ever comes back to this country he needs to go to jail for charges that apply. The govt doesn't want that anymore than Snowden does. It would be even more embarrassing to the govt than the current situation.

    To those that say he ran to Russia. He was trapped there. The govt was waiting for him in several different countries and issued warnings to all countries. That argument doesn't work.

    To those that think he should have worked through the system. The system doesn't work. He tried several avenues. He did not try enough avenues but he was in a dangerous situation. I know from personal experience that you have to be real careful when you have information that could end careers and put people in jail. One day I was getting ready to go to a going away party. The next Monday I was sitting in a room with a bunch of agents from the FBI, CID and OSI. If you make one slip up you can wind up in deep doodoo. It could end the career of the person trying to expose the corruption. They could wind up in jail. In my situation I could have lost all the time that I had worked towards my retirement and my job. I retired about 8 years later. It caused a lot of hard feelings with some of the people I worked with. It resulted in being refused any promotions for the rest of the time I was in that facility. At one point the FBI tried to implicate me in the situation. We had FBI, CID, OSI and the Dept of the Army IG up our skirts every day for two years. The whistle blower has very few resources to protect them. The agency has a ton of people ready to try to cover up the situation and smear the whistle blower. I was real careful in both situations that I was in. I had a lot of dirt about a lot of people so there were people in the agency that backed off. They didn't know what information I had or what I would do with it so I was covered. People went to jail and people got fired.

    That whistle blower law is a bunch of crap and offers hardly any protection, unless you have half a million sitting in the bank that you want to flush. Just look at the IRS situation, or the VA. Name any govt agency.

    For all you arm chair quarter backs that sit on your butt and say, "he could have done this" or , "he could have done that", you don't know squat about how govt agencies work.
    Agreed as I have mentioned before, I'll support Snowden going to jail, SO LONG AS, those responsible for violating the constitution, a higher law, go to prison too, for a longer period.
    Killing one person is murder, killing 100,000 is foreign policy

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    re: Snowden embraces American flag in WIRED photo shoot[W:511]

    Quote Originally Posted by joG View Post
    If "secret" only means that there are things that not everyone is allowed to know, I do not really have a problem with it. After all, we did know about the laws and courts, if we were interested.
    It's a "RUBBER STAMP" bud, this can't possibly be what you consider oversight. I'll stand for liberty and in the process I may retain my security too! You go ahead and sacrifice one for the other and wind up with nothing.
    Killing one person is murder, killing 100,000 is foreign policy

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    re: Snowden embraces American flag in WIRED photo shoot[W:511]

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    No- it was absolutely not "fine". However, it was the law. The alternative is to overthrow the system of rule of law and replace it with a system of rule of man - which history has demonstrated to be far more likely to lead to abuse. Ask yourself if you want a President Obama or a President Ted Cruz to be the one deciding what is and is not legal on any given day.
    So, Rosa Parks: criminal who eroded the rule if law and the very fabric of our democracy, in your eyes.
    "Political speech and writing are largely the defense of the indefensible. . . . Thus political language has to consist largely of euphemism, question-begging and sheer cloudy vagueness."
    ~Orwell, Politics and the English Language

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    re: Snowden embraces American flag in WIRED photo shoot[W:511]

    Quote Originally Posted by Kal'Stang View Post
    "Those that would give up a little liberty for a little security deserve neither."



    Why the hell should anyone trust a FISA court? No accountability. No oversight. Everything is done secretly. Thanks but no thanks. You might trust such a system. I don't. Never will.
    This runs so counter to all that the framers produced, that not even amidst the disagreements over various things at the time of the construction of our constitution, would any of them have accepted this. And the strangest thing was that its formation came just a few years on the heels of the Church committees stark warning for the potential abuse, such was the power of the NSA, AT THAT TIME, 40 years ago. Imagine were senator Church to write such a report today, with the advancement of technology since?
    Killing one person is murder, killing 100,000 is foreign policy

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    re: Snowden embraces American flag in WIRED photo shoot[W:511]

    Quote Originally Posted by Montecresto View Post
    Agreed as I have mentioned before, I'll support Snowden going to jail, SO LONG AS, those responsible for violating the constitution, a higher law, go to prison too, for a longer period.


    That is simply not how it works...Our justice system is not predicated on a tit for tat doling out of sentencing...Snowden, and his crime stands alone, and should be tried as such...I am sure it would not be a very good defense to plead that someone else did something bad too....
    Americans are so enamored of equality that they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom.

    Alexis de Tocqueville

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    re: Snowden embraces American flag in WIRED photo shoot[W:511]

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    That is simply not how it works...Our justice system is not predicated on a tit for tat doling out of sentencing...Snowden, and his crime stands alone, and should be tried as such...I am sure it would not be a very good defense to plead that someone else did something bad too....
    It wasn't offered as a defense! It's a prerequisite. You want Snowden and his crime to stand alone. Where are you calling for those responsible at the NSA, and their crime to stand alone?
    Killing one person is murder, killing 100,000 is foreign policy

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    re: Snowden embraces American flag in WIRED photo shoot[W:511]

    Quote Originally Posted by Montecresto View Post
    Agreed as I have mentioned before, I'll support Snowden going to jail, SO LONG AS, those responsible for violating the constitution, a higher law, go to prison too, for a longer period.
    I agree totally.

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    re: Snowden embraces American flag in WIRED photo shoot[W:511]

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    That is simply not how it works...Our justice system is not predicated on a tit for tat doling out of sentencing...Snowden, and his crime stands alone, and should be tried as such...I am sure it would not be a very good defense to plead that someone else did something bad too....
    I think he means that all of the parties should be held accountable.

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    re: Snowden embraces American flag in WIRED photo shoot[W:511]

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    That is simply not how it works...Our justice system is not predicated on a tit for tat doling out of sentencing...Snowden, and his crime stands alone, and should be tried as such...I am sure it would not be a very good defense to plead that someone else did something bad too....
    Once the government is held accountable, I'll contemplate holding Snowden responsible for his actions. Government first though. They are a far more significant danger to us all than this 1 guy.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

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