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Thread: Snowden embraces American flag in WIRED photo shoot[W:511]

  1. #161
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    re: Snowden embraces American flag in WIRED photo shoot[W:511]

    Quote Originally Posted by JasperL View Post
    I don't think that's true, and the major point is we should be made aware when the secret court issues a secret ruling saying all our data can be vacuumed up under the legal theory that once we hand it over to a private party, our 'expectation' of privacy from then on is ZERO. My "expectation" of privacy wasn't zero. I didn't expect Google or Yahoo to hand over my emails to NSA or for Verizon to let NSA know who and when and where of all my calls.

    Now that we KNOW that, we can have a national debate about the privacy of our data. Federal laws make disclosing medical information illegal in most cases. Well, maybe we need federal laws about when it's OK to funnel all the email traffic into an NSA server in Utah. That would be nice.....



    That's not the choice. The FISA court granted warrants for that kind of thing, same way courts have granted warrants for other surveillance for hundreds of years. The question is whether the NSA can vacuum up ALL gmail and then use all kinds of means to search through your email and mine for evidence of wrongdoing.
    What scares me is that we even have a "secret court" with "secret laws" and make "secret rulings" that can't be challenged because nobody knows about them because they are "secret".

  2. #162
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    re: Snowden embraces American flag in WIRED photo shoot[W:511]

    Quote Originally Posted by Kal'Stang View Post
    1: Its the "intelligence" "professionals" that this is all about. They're the ones wanting to violate our Right to Privacy. Why the hell should I listen to them?
    Maybe because they actually know about intelligence operations and you have zero clue?

    2: I have yet to see SCOTUS rule on this. Mind providing the case?
    I said federal judges. Ya know, the FISA courts? The ones that were charged with deciding if it were legal or not and subsequently made their determination?
    The whole modern world has divided itself into Conservatives and Progressives. The business of Progressives is to go on making mistakes. The business of Conservatives is to prevent mistakes from being corrected.
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    re: Snowden embraces American flag in WIRED photo shoot[W:511]

    Quote Originally Posted by NonoBadDog View Post
    What scares me is that we even have a "secret court" with "secret laws" and make "secret rulings" that can't be challenged because nobody knows about them because they are "secret".
    If "secret" only means that there are things that not everyone is allowed to know, I do not really have a problem with it. After all, we did know about the laws and courts, if we were interested.

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    re: Snowden embraces American flag in WIRED photo shoot[W:511]

    Quote Originally Posted by joG View Post
    If "secret" only means that there are things that not everyone is allowed to know, I do not really have a problem with it. After all, we did know about the laws and courts, if we were interested.
    I agree with that in part. We do know of the existence of the laws and the courts. We do not know what the laws are and what orders have been moved on or what the orders are.

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    re: Snowden embraces American flag in WIRED photo shoot[W:511]

    Quote Originally Posted by NonoBadDog View Post
    I agree with that in part. We do know of the existence of the laws and the courts. We do not know what the laws are and what orders have been moved on or what the orders are.
    I did have the impression a while back, when the laws were being passed, that the author of an article in either the Washington Post or NYTimes knew the law concerning the courts and that its wording was public knowledge.

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    re: Snowden embraces American flag in WIRED photo shoot[W:511]

    Quote Originally Posted by Montecresto View Post
    Edward Snowden: Pentagon Report on ‘Grave’ Threat Is Gravely Overblown

    By Julian Sanchez
    This article appeared on The Guardian on May 22, 2014.
    For months, defenders of America’s spy agencies have been touting a classified Pentagon report as proof that Edward Snowden’s unprecedented disclosures have grievously harmed intelligence operations and placed American lives at risk. But heavily redacted excerpts of that report, obtained by the Guardian under a Freedom of Information Act request and published on Thursday, suggest that those harms may be largely hypothetical — an attempt to scare spy-loving legislators with the phantoms of lost capability.

    The first thing to note is that the Pentagon report does not concern the putative harm of disclosures about the National Security Agency programs that have been the focus of almost all Snowden-inspired stories published to date. Rather, the Defense Intelligence Agency’s damage assessment deals only with the potential impact of “non-NSA Defense material” that the government believes Snowden may have obtained. Any harm resulting from the disclosure of NSA-related material — in other words, almost everything actually made public thus far — is not included in this assessment.


    If this be treason, then the bar has fallen awfully low these days.”

    Edward Snowden: Pentagon Report on 'Grave' Threat Is Gravely Overblown | Cato Institute
    They're going to piss and moan as much as possible and try to make it seem that we're all going to die because of Snowden because they have to protect their power. They are worried about this information and future information on their activities getting out not so much because of national security, but for the security of their own power and pocketbook.

    The government doesn't really want The People to know what it does often because we'd probably get pissed off if we knew what they were really up to.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

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  7. #167
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    re: Snowden embraces American flag in WIRED photo shoot[W:511]

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    Just out of curiosity, how do you think the founding fathers would have reacted to some one who leaked their secret documents? I am going to go out on a limb and suggest they would have not treated him well...
    Probably not, but the Founders then should be sure not to do anything that would anger the People too much. If they are scared of the People's reaction should the info get out, likely what they are doing is not good.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

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    re: Snowden embraces American flag in WIRED photo shoot[W:511]

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    Which is a seperate issue and one I agree needs to be addressed. That does not change the fact that Snowden broke the law.
    Indeed he did, but the sins of State exceed the sins of the individual in this case. And perhaps we should punish Snowden, but not before the government is punished for its tyranny.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

  9. #169
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    re: Snowden embraces American flag in WIRED photo shoot[W:511]

    Quote Originally Posted by OldWorldOrder View Post
    Maybe because they actually know about intelligence operations and you have zero clue?
    They don't care about the privacy. They care about "safety". That is their job.

    Quote Originally Posted by OldWorldOrder View Post
    I said federal judges. Ya know, the FISA courts? The ones that were charged with deciding if it were legal or not and subsequently made their determination?
    Oh yeah...the Monkey Court again.
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    re: Snowden embraces American flag in WIRED photo shoot[W:511]

    Quote Originally Posted by Kal'Stang View Post
    They don't care about the privacy. They care about "safety". That is their job.
    And they know it better than you, no?

    Oh yeah...the Monkey Court again.
    ...okay? It's their job to make that determination, not you. You're just whining because they don't agree with you.
    The whole modern world has divided itself into Conservatives and Progressives. The business of Progressives is to go on making mistakes. The business of Conservatives is to prevent mistakes from being corrected.
    -GK Chesterton

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