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Thread: Snowden embraces American flag in WIRED photo shoot[W:511]

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    re: Snowden embraces American flag in WIRED photo shoot[W:511]

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    Google quickly rewards


    Snowden released a crap ton more than just the metadata program. He set our SIGINT capabilities back significantly, exposed collectors, harmed US diplomacy, degraded our ability to conduct CT operations, and enabled an autocrat.
    Awww....DA60's hero!
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    re: Snowden embraces American flag in WIRED photo shoot[W:511]

    Quote Originally Posted by OldWorldOrder View Post
    Awww....DA60's hero!
    apparently DA60 considers that sort of thing to be admirable.

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    re: Snowden embraces American flag in WIRED photo shoot[W:511]

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    Google quickly rewards


    Snowden released a crap ton more than just the metadata program. He set our SIGINT capabilities back significantly, exposed collectors, harmed US diplomacy, degraded our ability to conduct CT operations, and enabled an autocrat.
    I'm particularly interested in the SIGINT reveals. What, specifically, was released? Program names? Tactics? Ongoing ops? I spent the best part of my 20s in an aircraft over Afghanistan, and I don't know exactly what Snowden released about that mission. I've seen claims that he leaked stuff about it, but not specifically what.
    "Political speech and writing are largely the defense of the indefensible. . . . Thus political language has to consist largely of euphemism, question-begging and sheer cloudy vagueness."
    ~Orwell, Politics and the English Language

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    re: Snowden embraces American flag in WIRED photo shoot[W:511]

    Edward Snowden: Pentagon Report on ‘Grave’ Threat Is Gravely Overblown

    By Julian Sanchez
    This article appeared on The Guardian on May 22, 2014.
    For months, defenders of America’s spy agencies have been touting a classified Pentagon report as proof that Edward Snowden’s unprecedented disclosures have grievously harmed intelligence operations and placed American lives at risk. But heavily redacted excerpts of that report, obtained by the Guardian under a Freedom of Information Act request and published on Thursday, suggest that those harms may be largely hypothetical — an attempt to scare spy-loving legislators with the phantoms of lost capability.

    The first thing to note is that the Pentagon report does not concern the putative harm of disclosures about the National Security Agency programs that have been the focus of almost all Snowden-inspired stories published to date. Rather, the Defense Intelligence Agency’s damage assessment deals only with the potential impact of “non-NSA Defense material” that the government believes Snowden may have obtained. Any harm resulting from the disclosure of NSA-related material — in other words, almost everything actually made public thus far — is not included in this assessment.


    If this be treason, then the bar has fallen awfully low these days.”

    Edward Snowden: Pentagon Report on 'Grave' Threat Is Gravely Overblown | Cato Institute
    Killing one person is murder, killing 100,000 is foreign policy

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    re: Snowden embraces American flag in WIRED photo shoot[W:511]

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    Snowden wasn't loyal to this country, it's people, or the ideas it was founded on. he uses that as an excuse for the gullible, and does so because it is known that the gullible make up a sizeable enough portion of this country to hinder the Presidents' ability to engage in effective foreign policy.

    I will never cease to be amazed at how people are willing to look past the fact that he's an enabler of Putin, the guy who just cracked down on free speech again in Russia, in order to argue that Snowden of all people is some kind of crusader for liberty.
    Umm...just how is he enabling Putin? Last I knew Putin was in charge LONG before Snowden came to the scene.
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    re: Snowden embraces American flag in WIRED photo shoot[W:511]

    Quote Originally Posted by Kal'Stang View Post
    Umm...just how is he enabling Putin? Last I knew Putin was in charge LONG before Snowden came to the scene.
    He means enabling Putin's actions by deterring actions that oppose him.
    The whole modern world has divided itself into Conservatives and Progressives. The business of Progressives is to go on making mistakes. The business of Conservatives is to prevent mistakes from being corrected.
    -GK Chesterton

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    re: Snowden embraces American flag in WIRED photo shoot[W:511]

    Quote Originally Posted by Kal'Stang View Post
    Umm...just how is he enabling Putin? Last I knew Putin was in charge LONG before Snowden came to the scene.
    Snowden releases information damaging US-European relationships when doing so makes it harder for them to respond in a coordinated manner to major moves on the part of Russia. Given that he is effectively being run at this point by Putin's administration, that is not a coincidence.

    That's just on the OSINT side. On the high-side, I'm sure that the FBS and GRU are loving the data he brought them.

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    re: Snowden embraces American flag in WIRED photo shoot[W:511]

    Quote Originally Posted by JasperL View Post
    I must be missing something with Snowden, because there are a lot of people on the left and right who are normally civil liberties advocates who despise the guy. We know the head of NSA has no problem looking into a camera and lying to the Congress and the public about what the agency is doing. We now know the CIA spies on Senators investigating past wrongdoing and is more than happy to delete/disappear documents that reveal wrongdoing. We know that going through the chain of command is futile. The Obama administration is brutally cracking down on leakers, and is as we speak threatening to jail journalists for failing to reveal their sources, in their prosecution of leakers who revealed illegal activity by the intelligence agencies.

    So in a broad sense, without endorsing everything Snowden has done, I'm not sure what someone wanting to expose the extent of the police state in the U.S. is supposed to do? The NSA was simply operating without meaningful restraints, including gathering near blanket coverage of all electronic communications in the U.S., of everyone. And every check on their ability to sift through the data from non-terrorists (aka innocent Americans charged and suspected of no crimes) has been shown to be window dressing, ineffective.

    I guess I don't understand how a person can complain about the near total police state we live under, with our government having nearly unrestricted access to ALL our communications, then demonize a person who took a huge risk to expose it all. Sure, he's imperfect, and undoubtedly has made mistakes, but the venom directed against him by civil liberties advocates is really puzzling to me. I don't like that he's hiding out in Russia, and before that China, but the U.S. makes it impossible for him to seek refuge in any other country, so we can't exactly complain that he's not traveling because the U.S. has made that impossible. And I don't expect him to be arrested and voluntarily go to solitary, never to be heard from again, which is what the U.S. did to Manning, for far LESS.
    I haven't seen criticism of Snowden from genuine civil liberties advocates, especially not from the left. All the facts show that he is a legitimate whistle blower.

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    re: Snowden embraces American flag in WIRED photo shoot[W:511]

    Quote Originally Posted by Hard Truth View Post
    All the facts show that he is a legitimate whistle blower.
    ....Er...all the people that really disagree with the laws that he broke like to ignore that he broke laws, you mean. Snowden disclosed nothing illegal, just things that some people wish that were illegal.
    The whole modern world has divided itself into Conservatives and Progressives. The business of Progressives is to go on making mistakes. The business of Conservatives is to prevent mistakes from being corrected.
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    re: Snowden embraces American flag in WIRED photo shoot[W:511]

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    Snowden releases information damaging US-European relationships when doing so makes it harder for them to respond in a coordinated manner to major moves on the part of Russia. Given that he is effectively being run at this point by Putin's administration, that is not a coincidence.

    That's just on the OSINT side. On the high-side, I'm sure that the FBS and GRU are loving the data he brought them.
    1: Relations were already damaged. Remember Bush? Obama hasn't exactly fixed that ya know.
    2: Leaking that information did not stop the ability of the NSA to still collect data. Its not like anyone in this day and age can stop using telephones, computers etc etc. Even in Russia.
    3: Russia has never really been "friendly" towards the US anyways.
    4: Snowden probably wouldn't have given Russia any info (if he even did) if the US government hadn't hemmed him in Russia. Snowden probably wouldn't have even fled if he hadn't been so sure that the government would go after him for informing the public of the NSAs wrongdoings. Why was he so sure? Look at the governments past history of going after anyone and everyone that exposed their wrong doings and you will have your answer.
    I have an answer for everything...you may not like the answer or it may not satisfy your curiosity..but it will still be an answer. ~ Kal'Stang

    My mind and my heart are saying I'm in my twenties. My body is pointing at my mind and heart and laughing its ass off. ~ Kal'Stang

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