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Protests over Missouri teen's death turn violent[W:647,807]

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Montecresto said:
So, you're a supporter of the militarisation of the American police forces, because of a story or two that you can dredge up from history. I only hope legislation gets passed to put the breaks on this ****. I'm pro constitution and value civil liberties.
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They were Militarized when they came up with SWAT Teams a long time ago. But not all towns and cities nor Sherriffs are Militarized, other than having matching fire power of whats being brought to bear on them. Most of the times.....you would have to say Sherriffs can be outgunned on the spot.

Major Urban Cities like Chicago.....yeah they are militarized. Not to many peoples liking either. Especially when you add corruption with LE's.
 
Montecresto said:
I agree with RA, but more importantly, I agree with the retired Cops that are speaking out AGAINST the militarisation of the police.
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Then I agree with both of you. As I said in response to RA, that's why I was glad to see this:

Man who shot at cops acquitted

To be clear then, it's not as much the gear, but the tactics that bother you the most?
 
Hamster Buddha said:
Then I agree with both of you. As I said in response to RA, that's why I was glad to see this:

Man who shot at cops acquitted

To be clear then, it's not as much the gear, but the tactics that bother you the most?
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Well sure the tactics that are facilitated by the gear.

Let the retired police chief from Minneapolis tell it.

"If you come out in the turtle gear and the head gear and the face mask and the riot sticks -- you're dressed for a fight and you're probably going to get one," Dolan said.
 
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CanadaJohn said:
Let me know when you're assigned the task of making the rules on this site and I'll hop right to following your instructions. Until then, I'll limit myself to being constrained by the actual inane rules that do exist.
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Not talking about rules. But I knew you couldn't defend your false claim.
 
Montecresto said:
Well sure the tactics that are facilitated by the gear.

Let the retired police chief from Minneapolis tell it.

"If you come out in the turtle gear and the head gear and the face mask and the riot sticks -- you're dressed for a fight and you're probably going to get one," Dolan said.
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But as we both know, most police officers don't answer calls dressed in combat gear though. Watch the show Cops? They don't ever look like what that police chief described.

In the case of Riot Police, which seems to be your major concern and not SWAT teams, they only come out when things have gotten out of control and your beat cops can't handle the problem with current gear, and SWAT isn't large enough to do so. Let me ask you this; what's the difference in a bunch of NG walking around in riot gear, as opposed to those same beat cops (that in an ideal world already have connections with the community) walking about in the same riot gear?
 
MMC said:
They were Militarized when they came up with SWAT Teams a long time ago. But not all towns and cities nor Sherriffs are Militarized, other than having matching fire power of whats being brought to bear on them. Most of the times.....you would have to say Sherriffs can be outgunned on the spot.

Major Urban Cities like Chicago.....yeah they are militarized. Not to many peoples liking either. Especially when you add corruption with LE's.
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It's odd to see troops camouflaged with gear intended for jungle use on the streets of Ferguson, Missouri. 'Boots on the ground' is like real estate investing, it seems. Location location, etc.

This is nnt a happy trend in America. Johnny, Get Your Gun-Free Zone :: SteynOnline

A nation of Fergusons: Why America's police forces look like invading armies - Vox
 
poweRob said:
Just found this about Ferguson, MO where the shooting took place:

67% of Ferguson's population is black; 29% is white​

something doesn't appear right in this police unit
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Or of blacks, for not becomming cops.
 
Excon said:
How does forced racial quotas show him to be wrong?
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Because it's ok to shoot a black kid if you're black yourself, is what he's saying. The cop's actions were only wrong because he's white.
 
Jerry said:
Or of blacks, for not becomming cops.
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Or we can forget about color altogether rather than working on fractions of society and what the make-up of Blacks, Women, the physically handicapped, etc. are. As long as everything is fair according to the standards required, there should not be a problem. Ability tends to be the great equalizer.
 
Hamster Buddha said:
But as we both know, most police officers don't answer calls dressed in combat gear though. Watch the show Cops? They don't ever look like what that police chief described.

In the case of Riot Police, which seems to be your major concern and not SWAT teams, they only come out when things have gotten out of control and your beat cops can't handle the problem with current gear, and SWAT isn't large enough to do so. Let me ask you this; what's the difference in a bunch of NG walking around in riot gear, as opposed to those same beat cops (that in an ideal world already have connections with the community) walking about in the same riot gear?
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You are ignoring what police chiefs are saying, and they know far more than you. In his book, 'Rise of the Warrior Cop, (written by a retired Cop) RB explains its a generational issue. Older and retired Cops are VERY concerned about it, while the younger ones aren't. And they're making more younger ones. So...........unless sound minded legislators prevail in pushing this crap back, we'll be seeing more of it, to your excitement.
 
Montecresto said:
You are ignoring what police chiefs are saying, and they know far more than you. In his book, 'Rise of the Warrior Cop, (written by a retired Cop) RB explains its a generational issue. Older and retired Cops are VERY concerned about it, while the younger ones aren't. And they're making more younger ones. So...........unless sound minded legislators prevail in pushing this crap back, we'll be seeing more of it, to your excitement.
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Even if you cut off the supply of military equipment to police forces, those young cops will stop be there. They'll still continue to bust down doors with gear they can get elsewhere. In other words, the problem is still there.

And I wasn't ignoring it, I was dismissing it. There's a difference Monte..
 
If we didn't have well heeled gangs and cartels duking it out with the cops and each other over turf, maybe we wouldn't need militarized police forces. It seems to me that there is an obvious way to at least reduce the incidence of violence in this country, and perhaps not have to pay to have so many people locked up as well.
 
MMC said:
From the same link. As you can see Holder and BO are making sure they are on the job. Held some interviews as part of
Civil Rights Investigation. Which they will talk to some more after they canvass the neighborhood.

Is that Code for Jesse Jackson and Al Sharptones to start making the rounds?



Also Friday, the Justice Department confirmed in a statement that FBI agents had conducted several interviews with witnesses as part of a civil-rights investigation into Brown's death. In the days ahead, the agents planned to canvass the neighborhood where the shooting happened, seeking more information, the statement said.....snip~
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? I'm talking about the rioting scumbags stealing from the business owner who was the victim of a Robbery. That isn't right. Police need to protect that guys place.
 
Hamster Buddha said:
Even if you cut off the supply of military equipment to police forces, those young cops will stop be there. They'll still continue to bust down doors with gear they can get elsewhere. In other words, the problem is still there.

And I wasn't ignoring it, I was dismissing it. There's a difference Monte..
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Well, you go ahead and dismiss what the cops who would know are saying about it and dismiss your civil liberties while your at it. I'll continue to fight for mine.
 
Thorgasm said:
It goes to excessive force.
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If the first shot killed him, the remaining 8 are what.....extra dead?

It's not beyond belief that it took 9 shots (9mm) to immobilize a large man, even one not...medicated. I agree it sounds excessive, but I wasn't on my back, pinned in my car, with a three hundred pound young man beating on me. If the cop was carrying a .40 or .45, that would be different...slightly.
 
Montecresto said:
Well, you go ahead and dismiss what the cops who would know are saying about it and dismiss your civil liberties while your at it. I'll continue to fight for mine.
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Does the gun, or the person wielding the gun, take away your rights?
 
Montecresto said:
Not talking about rules. But I knew you couldn't defend your false claim.
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Having you believe me, believe it or not, isn't worth a second of my time to do the research on your behalf. If you've followed the threads on this issue, you know what I stated is true. If it makes you feel better to deny that truth, who am I to stand in the way of your happiness.
 
MMC said:
Heya Ockham :2wave: What do you think about this? Do you think this might be relevant?


FBI warns New Black Panther leader in Ferguson inciting violence.

The FBI is concerned members of the New Black Panther Party are in Ferguson, Missouri and advocating violence against police, according to an alert from the St. Louis Division of the FBI, reported KTVI.

Chawn Kweli, National Chief of Staff for the NBPP is in town, along with other members, to respond to the shooting of Michael Brown. Kweli posted on Facebook , “This is the hour all the greats promised. If you die, die like a warrior. I’ll see you on the ground.” He is posting updates from Ferguson under the tag: Live Battle Report.....snip~

FBI warns of ‘New Black Panther Party’ leader inciting violence in Ferguson | WTVR.com
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I've been seeing news reports saying that the looting and violence isn't coming from Ferguson locals but outsiders ... this certainly lends credence to that.
 
Montecresto said:
Neither of those are crimes punishable by death in traditional America.
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Who said they were? Setting up stawmen will not win you any debate points.

It's the older, retired cops that are disgusted with the direction that the police are going as ex-Cop, Radley Balko points out in his book, Rise of the Warrior Cop. You keep talking about how old you are, so you should have a problem with it too!
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So all older people think alike eh? How very ageist of you. What you don't seem to understand is that as technology and weaponry advances, so to will tactics...Would you have police today (whom in most cases are outgunned) going up against .50cal's with .38 revolvers? Would you not equip cops with riot gear to hold the line against anarchist rioters? Your youth doesn't reflect the real world, and we don't have all the facts in this...You are choosing to believe people with an anti police bias. And what I have consistently said is that the investigation has to be completed before you can just buy into these friends of the young man...
 
Dittohead not! said:
If we didn't have well heeled gangs and cartels duking it out with the cops and each other over turf, maybe we wouldn't need militarized police forces. It seems to me that there is an obvious way to at least reduce the incidence of violence in this country, and perhaps not have to pay to have so many people locked up as well.
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I doubt that either were involved in this case, nor with that rancher in Nevada either, nor with many other Americans who were attacked by the police without the traditional sufficient cause. 66 Percent of Americans Now Live in a Constitution-Free Zone | The Nation
 
Peaceful protesters?
BS!

This is exactly why they wanted his name released and why it never should have been.
 
Excon said:
Peaceful protesters?
BS!

This is exactly why they wanted his name released and why it never should have been.
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Yeah Excon. :2wave: and the News Reporters said they were sorry for showing where he lived.....after they showed where he lived. Their usual.

Again my point was if the FBI knew he was inciting violence. Why didn't they arrest him?
 
MMC said:
Yeah Excon. :2wave: and the News Reporters said they were sorry for showing where he lived.....after they showed where he lived. Their usual.

Again my point was if the FBI knew he was inciting violence. Why didn't they arrest him?
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Appeasement?
 
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